Jeff Cumberbatch – Chairman of the FTC and Deputy Dean, Law Faculty, UWI, Cave Hill

Last week, the first part of this column treated the submission by Sir Hilary Beckles, Vice Chancellor of the University of the West Indies, that the statue of Lord Admiral Horatio Nelson had outlived its incongruous presence in Heroes Square and that its continued presence there makes Barbados a deviant and a pariah in the community of progressive nations that oppose publicly revering persons (such as Nelson) known to have committed “crimes against humanity”.

In that first part, I also bemoaned the absence of a popular discourse on the Vice Chancellor’s proposal, an absence that I found mystifying. In the past week, however, there has been some public reaction to the proposal, most of it predictably defensive of preservation of the status quo rather than of its alteration by one jot or tittle.

For example, in last Friday’s edition of the Barbados Advocate, a correspondent, Mr Michael Rudder, chose to pray in aid the undeniable reality of the criminally forcible mix of the races present in most if not all slave societies and to wonder “if any of my African ancestors were responsible for selling any of their “brothers” to those who carried on the slave trade” while he admits knowledge that the family of one Caucasian ancestor did have slaves.

He then proceeds to make the amazing rhetorical point that since we are all mixed, “what does it matter that some ancestor was a so-called white supremacist? And he continues still rhetorically, “Did your ancestor see him/herself as such? Do we see ourselves as black supremacists?

Essentially, he makes the point that we should acknowledge our history and move on and not “keep holding up the rear mirror of our past”.

It is tempting to read this opinion in a sense clearly not intended by the author and to treat it as an agreement with Sir Hilary’s thesis that officially to maintain the statue of Lord Nelson in its current location is to hold up the rear view mirror of 1813 Barbados when Nelson was a hero to the existing societal structure, the identical structure that was to be the target of a slave rebellion a mere three years later, officially recognized by the elevation of one of its reputed leaders to the highest national status. Indeed, there is a bit of a paradox in having both of these men elevated to this lofty status, even if that status of one of them is now merely situational.

It is a conundrum that seems to pervade Barbadian society, where the general attitude appears to be “I do not really care what they do about Lord Nelson, but he is part of our history” OR the more extreme and silly, “if we move Nelson then we should remove all traces of English influence, including place names, titles and perhaps surnames…”

Veteran columnist Patrick Hoyos in his column last Sunday required “some sort of consistent rationale if Nelson should be moved” although he did not spell out what would constitute such consistency or who would be the ultimate arbiter of it.

Mr Hoyos also appears to have interpreted Sir Hilary’s letter in a way different to me. He construes the following passages from the Beckles letter as indicating that Sir Hilary would not have minded Nelson remaining standing so long as he was overlooking Carlisle Bay contemplating his exploits beyond the horizon…”

“ The Democratic Labour Party turned it around and deepened its roots when it had the opportunity to move it to a marine park on the pier.

• The Barbados Labour Party did not wish the Right Excellent Errol Barrow at the centre of Parliament Square and placed him out of sight of the Assembly in what was a public car park. Nelson remained in the more prominent place”.

Perhaps owing to my professional training, I prefer to base the gist of an opinion on the interpretation that what is stated later should generally overrule an earlier statute or decision that is inconsistent with it through the doctrine of implied repeal. I prefer to ascertain Sir Hilary’s sentiments from his final paragraphs-

“The assumption is growing, I have been informed, that the Government might rather citizens, in an act of moral civil disobedience, to take matters in their own hands, and remove the offending obstacle to democracy. This has been the case in the United States and South Africa.

Quietly, state officials could slip away and say that the people have spoken. Such alliances of active citizens and passive state have moved many societies. Barbados must move on.”

This most assuredly does not read as a paean to a mere relocation of the statue to me.

O Dominica!

I should wish to express my sincere best wishes for the full renaissance and recovery of the island of Dominica after its devastation by Hurricane Maria during last week. Owing to my occupation, I have come into contact with many of the people of that island whether as teachers, classmates, or most latterly students, and they have been without exception, some of the most gracious and warmest people you will ever encounter. Dominica was also the first country that I slept in outside of Barbados when as a member of the Animation Choir under the leadership of Mr Harold Rock, I sailed there by the Federal Palm, I believe, in 1968. I do not remember much of it now; except partaking of the sweet lime fruit and hazarding a taste of stewed mountain chicken.

My more recent visits unfortunately have been severely limited in duration and in free time, but I have seem the photographs of the recent destruction wrought and I weep for the country I remember.

O Dominica, the land of beauty

The land of verdant and glorious sunshine…

499 responses to “The Jeff Cumberbatch Column – “…The Ball that Shot Nelson” (2)”


  1. Nicholas, St. Peter & St. Andrew – St. Nicholas – house built 1650 – 60 by Col. Lucy? Benjamin Beringer – Advocate 82-01-19 (National Trust)
    c. 1641 Benjamin Berringer in partnership with John Yeamans
    1661 Benjamin Berringer died, no will. Commission to investigate his affairs. Pltn inherited by son, John Berringer [Benjamin Berringer killed by Yeamans – Fraser 11]

    1674 Berringer
    1680 John Berringer, 170 ac, St. Peter
    (John Berringer bequeathed £6000 to son John Berringer by 1st marriage but not pltn. He bequeathed pltn to daughter of his 2nd wife whom he married in 1694).

    1694 19/228 Marriage settlement. John Berringer marrying Susannah Wade (2nd wife). Berringer’s pltn, 318 ac, St. Peter and St. Andrew, 157 slaves
    Bounders: (N) John Gibbes (Ellis Castle), Margaret Wood, widow, Reynold Alleyne, Roger Dakers, Morgan Lewis, dec’d, (E) Morgan Lewis, dec’d, John Milles, (S) John Milles, Thomas Merrick, (W) Thomas Merrick, Willoughby Cumberbatch (Welchtown), Benjamin Jones, James Smith, Ann Webb, Charles Phillips, James Spence

    1709 18 Dec (rect. 1716) Act (title) Halls Laws 503
    “Act to dock the entail limited on a certain pltn … and to enable George Nicholas and Susannah his wife to mortgage or sell the same with the Negroes hereto belonging”

    1716 27/535 In 1688 Richard Yeamans of St. James sold to Hon. Richard Walter 59 ac, St. Peter and St. Andrew. Now John Walter, heir of Richard Walter, dec’d, sells same land to George Nicholas, husband of Susannah Nicholas, née Berringer, daughter and heiress of John Berringer, dec’d
    Bounders: (E) John Milles, Morgan Lewis, dec’d, (S) John Milles, Thomas Merrick, (W & N) John Berringer

    1721 Nicholas
    1725 George Nicholas bounders on Welchtown – BMHS xxxiv 162
    1726 36/14 Recites marriage settlement of 1694. Long and expensive legal proceedings against George Nicholas and his wife

    1727 83/84–87
    Court levy for debt of £878 and court fee of £35 on 40½ ac of pltn of George Nicholas in St. Peter. Cane land appraised @ £20 per ac, wasteland appraised @ £10 per ac. Further levies on other land of pltn. All bought by Joseph Dottin

    1735 Will 24/431
    Joseph Dottin. Bequeathed Nicholas pltn to daughter, Christian Dottin
    1746 Christian Dottin married John Gay Alleyne
    1782 The only child of Sir John Gay Alleyne and his wife, Lady Christian Alleyne, died. As Lady Alleyne was past child bearing age, her husband agreed to surrender his ownership of the pltn and retain only the rights of a life tenant. Ownership of the pltn reverted to the children of Lady Alleyne’s sister, who had married William Blenman – 1748 – Brandow 178 – see Lascelles 1748

    1801 Sir John Gay Alleyne died
    1811 262/196 Chancery Court sale. Bought by Edward Carleton Cumberbatch and Laurence Trent Cumberbatch for £20,700, 344 ac, St. Peter & St. Andrew
    Bounders: Hope Ellerton Sober (Ellis Castle), Joseph King (Gay’s), Alexander Cozier, John martin Morris (Boscobel), Scawan Kewnrick Gibbons (Morgan Lewis), Abraham Perry Cumberbatch (Cleland), James Scott Payne, Thomas Walke, dec’d (Overhill), Joseph Jordan (Welchtown)

    1825 L & E. Cumberbatch
    1825 L. Cumberbatch – Advocate 82-01-19 – Edward Cumberbatch died first (1821) and left his share to daughter Sarah, who married Charles Cave. Lawrence died in 1832 at 91 and left his shaire to Sarah Cave. Charles Cave died in 1887 and left Nicholas to his son Laurence Trent Cave who died in 1899. He left Nicholas to his son Charles John Philip Cave who died in 1950. He left Nicholas to his son Laurence Cave who transferred in 1964 to son Lt. Col. Stephen Cave

    1834 Shilstone xxii 1 (___) – Appraised with Ebworth £55,974
    Shilstone xxxv – Prop. of Lawrence Cumberbatch dec’d 1830
    Shilstone xxxv – St. Nicholas appraised 407 ac @ £50, slaves £60
    1842 & 47 L. T. Cumberbatch, dec’d 280
    1846, 8, 9 L.T. Cumberbatch, dec’d 408
    1850 Charles Cave 409
    1847 280 ac, St. Lucy
    1854 L.T. Cumberbatch 409
    1858–1913 C. Cave (Charles BMHS 30:47) 409
    1859 Absentee
    RB1/384/679 4/7/1889
    Edward Carlton Cumberbatch left his share of St. Nicholas and Ebworth to his brothers Lawrence Trent Cumberbatch and John Trent Cumberbatch and £1000 in trust for his grandson Stephen Cave. Lawrence T.C. left £500 to Stephen Cave. Stephen Cave died and legacies due to his widow Jane Charity Cave (now Bytheson)

    1892 Steam Mill
    1914–37 C.J.P. Cave (490 in ’14 & ’21) 400
    1951 C.J.P. Cave
    1970 L.C.H. Cave 220


  2. From Queree papers, work of Ronnie Hughes and Mr. Queree and others made possible by Richard Goddard

  3. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    It’s always so easy to prove John a liar.

    Go look John, while ya at it look at Cameron and all the other slave owning families who became too arrogant and uppity to change their blighted names.


  4. The Cumberbatch family appears owning Nicholas in 1811, bought out of chancery … so it was making a loss or could not pay its obligations


  5. Cleland, Cleland, Lammings & Breedys, St. Andrew & St. Peter
    1674 Cox
    1719 Will 4/519
    Col. William Cleland. Bequeaths “Cox’s” pltn in St. Andrew to wife Sarah Cleland (BMHS xxxiv 160)

    1721 Cleland
    1728 34/? Sarah Cleland and William Tryon, both of England, sell pltn to Abraham Cumberbatch of B’dos for £6000, 107 ac, St. Andrew

    1730 78/23–27, 34/333
    William Hall of St. Peter sells to William Breedy of St. Michael for £60(?) John Sommerhayes pltn, 72 ac, St. Andrew, 25 slaves, mansion house, sugar works
    Bounders: Abraham Cumberbatch, Hon. James Dottin, Burnt House?, Abel Dotin, Greenland, Edward Lamming, dec’d, Richard Downes, dec’d
    William Breedie et once sells same pltn to Abraham Cumberbatch for £5000
    1793 201/95 Marriage settlement. Hon. Abraham Cumberbatch of St. Andrew marrying Mary Cumberbatch Sober, daughter of Cumberbatch Sober of St. Peter. Cumberbatch’s pltn called “Cleland & Lammings” in St. Andrew and St Peter (33 ac in St. Peter) 440 ac, 281 slaves
    Bounders: Hon. Sir John Gay Alleyne, bart (Nicholas), Samuel Rous Dottin, Harrison Walker (Overhill), Abel Rous Dottin, Jonathan Worrell (Sedgepond), Stephen Blackett (Burnt House), John Hall, William Harris, Henry Thomas

    1825 Abraham Perry Cumberbatch
    1832 Jul 29 Death of Gunning B.F. Clarke at Cleland (Shilstone xxxv) (WITH BREEDY’S)
    1842–87 A.P. Cumberbatch dec’d (’42 – 403, ’46 – 407) 442
    1859 Absentee
    1859 Two works
    1850 35 ac, St. Peter
    1892 Mrs. Denison
    1898–1907 A. Denison 442
    1912–14 Mrs. J.B. Denison et al (2 works – wind) 442
    1921 J.B. Denison et al 442
    1929–37 Emily R. Pile (’37 – 442) 450
    1951 & 57/8 Est. Emily P. Pile dec’d
    1970 Est. E.R. Pile 204

    Bounders: Lammings, Castle Grant, William F. Culpeper, Alexander McClean, William W. McClean, Benjamin McClean


  6. Cleland start’s life as Cox’s plantation, about 107 acres.

    It was surrounded by many other small plantations, also owned by Quaker families.

    There are marriage settlements, families die out, family names disappear, no sons, Quakers emigrate etc etc etc.

    By 1793, Cleland grows to 440 acres.

    Just by Cockrow Rock there is a Spring called Dottin’s Spring.

    There is a Breedy’s windmill further down the hill.


  7. There is no way these small units are going to create untold riches.


  8. … that is common sense

  9. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    The Cumberbatch family first arrived in Barbados in the 1690s, when Joshua Cumberbatch, Benedict’s eighth-great-grandfather, left the family home near Bristol and emigrated to the island with his wife, Ann, and three children.

    He was following a well-trodden path. At the time, younger sons of wealthy families (who did not typically stand to inherit vast riches), would often decide to venture to the New World in search of a fortune.

    It was a perilous move. Roughly half of those who set sail to the Caribbean would either perish during the journey or die from disease during their first three years overseas.

    Cumberbatch has revealed that his mother, the actress Wanda Ventham, had urged him not to use his real surname professionally

    But for those fortunate enough to survive, extreme riches beckoned. ‘Sugar was the engine of the British economy and British Empire, and plantation owners grew incredibly wealthy very quickly,’ is how Joshua Newton, the curator of World History at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, puts it.

    ‘They were not just the wealthiest one per cent, but the one per cent of the one per cent. They also tended to be rough, uncouth and vulgar.’

    Sugar money would build some of Britain’s most famous (and ornate) stately homes, from Harewood House, near Leeds, to Danson House, in Kent, and the vast Gothic folly of Fonthill Abbey in Wiltshire.

    Joshua Cumberbatch was not one of the lucky few. Shortly after arriving on Barbados, which was first occupied by Britain in 1625, he died, leaving the lion’s share of his assets to his teenage son Abraham, who was born in 1685.

    Abraham, however, would prosper spectacularly. After learning the basics of sugar farming (and earning some capital) by working as a salaried plantation foreman, he began buying up property in the 1720s.

    In addition to Cleland, bought in 1728, he acquired the Breedy, Lammings and Farm plantations in 1730, building refineries on each property that would turn raw cane into sugar and make him one of the island’s wealthiest men.

    A book called The Geneaologies Of Barbados Families records that, upon his death in 1750, Abraham ‘had a considerable fortune, and no son to carry on his name’.
    In his will, the hugely valuable estate was therefore left to Abraham Carleton (born in 1726 to his daughter Ann, and Benedict’s fifth-great-grandfather) — but only on the condition that he agreed to change his surname to Cumberbatch. Of course, like any colonial sugar fortune of the era, the family wealth derived squarely from the brutal and exploitative system of slavery.

    The trade, which peaked in the 18th  century, saw millions of men, women and children captured and shipped from West Africa to the Caribbean, where they were forced to spend their lives toiling on plantations.

    Delve rather deeper into the Cumberbatch family history, and you find an epic tale of greed, swashbuckling bravery, incredible luck and, at times, appalling cruelty

    During the 200 years from when Barbados was first occupied, to the abolition of slavery there in 1838, an estimated 610,000 slaves were taken to the island.

    ‘It was a system of unimaginable violence, founded by violence and sustained by violence,’ adds Newton. ‘At the museum, we have whips designed to be as painful as possible, chains, manacles, and bracelets which identified you as a person’s property.

    ‘For most of the period, the rates of death among slaves outnumbered birth rates. These people were literally worked to death.’

    You can still see, in Abraham senior’s 1750 will, a hint of the degree to which human beings were treated as beasts of burden. One paragraph stipulates: ‘My plantation be kept staffed with 250 negro slaves and 150 head of cattle.’

    The slaves didn’t always accept their fate. They would occasionally feign illness to avoid work, attempt to sabotage sugar production and, in extremis, poison their masters.
    In 1816, by which time the plantations had passed through the hands of Abraham Carleton and his son, also Abraham (1754-96), and were owned by Abraham Parry Cumberbatch (born 1794), a slave called Bussa led a bloody rebellion.

    ‘Furniture of every description, rum, sugar, wine, corn, and every species of food which had been stored were promiscuously scattered in the roads and fields near to dwelling houses,’ recalled Edward Codd, a British soldier, in a letter home to London. ‘The rapidity and destruction evinced the fury of the insurgents.’

    In the two months the uprising lasted, Bussa and an estimated 1,000 of his fellow slaves were killed. A further 214 were executed after the rebellion had been put down, and 123 slaves shipped off the island.

    Shortly afterwards, the Cumberbatch clan had another headache. By 1820, Abraham Parry Cumberbatch had acquired sufficient wealth to return to Britain to live in some splendour at Fairwater House, in a stately home which is now the site of Taunton School.
    Back in Barbados, meanwhile, his uncles, Lawrence Trent Cumberbatch and Edward Carlton Cumberbatch, had acquired St Nicholas, one of the island’s grandest plantations, with about 300 slaves.

    One of those was a woman known only as Elizabeth, described in family documents as a ‘mulatto’, meaning that she was the light-skinned daughter of a white plantation owner and a black female slave. She would become the unmarried Lawrence’s lover and produce his only son, John Edward Cumberbatch, who was born in 1800 when his father was 46.

    Among the extended family back in Britain, the affair caused acute embarrassment. But according to historians, relationships between slaves and their male masters were relatively commonplace.
    ‘It happened wherever there was slavery,’ says Newton. ‘It was even true of [former U.S. President] Thomas Jefferson. ‘Sometimes the relationships involved sexual exploitation. Sometimes it was a genuine match, though there was always a power differentiation.’

    Dr Nicholas Draper, of the University of London’s Legacies of British Slave Ownership project, describes sugar plantations as a ‘sexual playground’ for owners such as the Cumberbatches.
    ‘If Lawrence had a relationship with a slave called Elizabeth, that would be no surprise at all,’ he says. ‘I can guarantee that he didn’t marry her; she would have been called his “housekeeper” or similar. The children of these unions were known as “reputed” or “natural” children in legal contexts such as wills.’

    Lawrence’s will, signed in 1829, instructed that Elizabeth and John Edward be ‘manumitted’ (or set free). To help his ‘bastard’ son survive, he gave him a smallholding, and six slaves of his own.
    John Edward Cumberbatch would, in turn, become the patriarch of another noteworthy Cumberbatch clan. His (pale-skinned) grandson Alphonso emigrated to the UK, where he became an eminent Harley Street surgeon. Alphonso’s son, Hugh, was a wealthy bachelor who bequeathed his fortune to Trinity College, Oxford. It was used to build the college’s Cumberbatch building, completed in 1966.

    As for actor Benedict’s line of the family, they would dispose of their Barbados land holdings in the years that followed the abolition of slavery after receiving more than £6,000 — a relative fortune — in government compensation for the loss of their human ‘property’.

    By the time of a 1913 census of the island, not a single plantation was owned by a Cumberbatch.
    Abraham Parry Cumberbatch’s son, Robert, and grandson Henry would set their sights on a different corner of the Empire, becoming British consuls in Turkey. Henry’s eldest son, also Henry, became a famous naval commander whose own son, Timothy, is Benedict’s father.

    Last summer, Caricom, the Caribbean version of the European Union, announced that it was launching legal action against Britain, the Netherlands and France, seeking reparations for citizens of the 14 countries whose ancestors were victims of slavery.

    Whatever the outcome, the Cumberbatch family’s history will never be forgotten in at least one hilly corner of Barbados.

    This week, Stephen Tempro showed off old maps of the Cumberbatch-era Cleland Plantation, which still hang in the hallway of his farmhouse in Barbados.
    ‘It’s fascinating to think that a movie star, in a film about slavery, descends from ancestors of this particular plot,’ he said.
    ‘Cleland Plantation has an amazing past. Someone ought to write a book about it.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549773/How-Benedict-Cumberbatchs-family-fortune-slavery-And-roles-films-like-12-Years-A-Slave-bid-atone-sins.html#ixzz4tnm50BVl
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


  10. According to this below they had money from before and Cleland on the farley hill road was their base plantation.

    I wonder if Edward is related to them on the distaff side?

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOyMK8nsPWAhUFYyYKHelBBXQQFgheMAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcumberbatch.one-name.net%2Fgetperson.php%3FpersonID%3DI528%26tree%3D001&usg=AFQjCNEfSAWe64yojDWLxQGbQkYekcSbvg

  11. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Good thing we dont have to believe John the Liar, not only do the brits still have all their Wills and other documentation, but everything is in SLAVE MUSEUMS…easily accessible by the public…they cant take them down and hide all that ample proof that still exists.

    Cumberbatch’s mother is begging him to change the name so he dont get sued, not that they have much left, but some dizzy lawyer might find a way.

    “The trade, which peaked in the 18th  century, saw millions of men, women and children captured……..CAPTURED…and shipped from West Africa to the Caribbean, where they were forced to spend their lives toiling on plantations.”

    In other words KIDNAPPED FROM AFRICA….kidnappings.


  12. John

    That Daily mail article was an interesting read untill I came across the fictional Bussa uprising which would lead me to suspect that more inaccuracies exist in that article. Whats your thinking?

    The below the hill Scotland District Plantations of which Cleland would be on the border were always labour intensive as they are susceptable to landslides,soil erosion and generally difficult to mechanise even in the days of limited mechanisation. Could they have made money with sufficient slaves bearing in mind the upkeep was becoming more expensive.

    Richard Goddard wrote about the mill and outhouse at Bawdens that dissappeared and I heard a similar story happened at Richmond.

  13. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    “Letter from James Leith, Governor of Barbados, to Earl Bathurst, Secretary of State for War and Colonies, 30 April 1816 (CO 28/85).

    .re Bussa African Born Slave uprising.

    View full size image
    Transcript

    Barbados, 30th April 1816
    My Lord,
    It is with great regret that I do myself the honour of reporting to your Lordship for the information of the Prince Regent, that I received accounts from Mr. President Spooner sent to me express to Guadeloupe that a serious insurrection of the slaves had taken place on the night of the 14th instant and that martial law had been proclaimed. I immediately embarked and arrived at Barbados on the 24th instant, when I found that the force promptly employed for the re-establishment of public order had at once suppressed the insurgents. I have the honour to transmit the report of Colonel Codd, the commanding officer of the troops to which I beg leave to refer for information as to the nature of the insurrection.
    Glossary

    Insurrection: attempt by a group of people to defeat their government and take control of their country, usually by force
    Insurgents: rebels; people taking part in an uprising
    Suppressed: put down, stopped

    « Return to Bussa’s rebellion

    The National Archives
    Kew, Richmond, Surrey,
    TW9 4DU
    Tel: +44 (0) 20 8876 3444”


  14. Chuckle…….no where in the body of the letter is a name mentioned and for the record I am fully aware of the specious arguments offered by the twistorian who invented the Bussa rebellion.

    Thankfully the Griots of Bim that the twistorian lauded and then went against have always stated that Washington Pitt Franklyn the outside child of Bayleys pltn owner by an african slave started a rebellion to regain his birthright of which his fathers european sons deprived him of…..the rest is history.

  15. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Cant tell lies and rewrite history, the british got the best, well documented archives filled with original documents, scanned and uploaded to the internet from the slave trade to be found anywhere, if I have to I will access every archive to prove you liars.

    The original letter scanned….and embedded.

    bit.ly/2xtUUVubit.ly/2xtUUVu


  16. Hahaha…..show me where a name is mentioned in the body of the letter….lol.

  17. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    http://ow.ly/Xudd30frnGA

    The original letter scanned….and embedded.

  18. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Vincent…ya such a fraud, the only name I can recognize in the scans of the original letter up to 2c is Davidson, who would have been a soldier…

    …..am sure they would refer to them as the slaves and not individually as people in 1816, they were property, you joker, not thought of as people with names, the brits have proof…

    …where is yours.


  19. WW&C

    I am eternally greatfull to you for proving my case beyond a shadow of a doubt here on BU, as nowhere in the actual letter’s body are the names of any insurrectionist mentioned.

    All else attached to the letter is conjecture to fool gullible racist like you by a twistorian with his own agenda…….thanks again.

  20. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Again…where is your proof…you dont even have an aged letter in a glass case, all you have are fantasies…your and John’s…

    …..where is your proof to dispute british archives.

  21. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    If you are going to say the british are lying…bring your proof.

    I can tell you that both of you are telling lies and I brought proof from the national archives in Surrey…bring your proof that the brits are lying,


  22. WW&C

    Hahahaha…….my proof idiot…..lol…..is that you have nothing to show on that letter.

    Washington Pitt Franklyn was part of our anecdotal history growing up in Bim and if you wish ask Caswell Franklyn about his ancestor’s disenfranchisement not only of his property but also his role in our country’s history.

    Note my responses are for those reading this to show them how specious the arguments are for Bussa the myth.

  23. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Anecdotes are not proof…they can be found throughout the Caribbean, in US, UK, Canada and anywhere the blight of slavery touched…bring hard evidence…proof…Vincent.

    We know the brits are liars, for centuries they have been liars, but to debunk those lies…cause YOU said they are lying….bring your proof.

    Besides, apparently. ..there were 2 incidents on that plantation, show me proof of the second one.

  24. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    That is the problem right there, someone who was not even born in 1816 wrote a book based on anecdotes which in and of themselves are not reliable without solid proof, replacing an African born slave as leader of the rebellion, with a loose moral mulatto of shady character heading 20,000 into rebellion at Bayley’s plantation..which has to be taken with several cups of salt…..

    Then….ya have the british version of a letter written by a governor of those times that an African born slave Bussa…led the rebellion with 1000 slaves in attendance..

    Ya see the problem…the brits had their fingers. ..all of them…on the pulse of the island, nothing happened without their knowledge. .or without them competently documenting every detail…and archiving their own crimes…so, I tend to believe the british version..cause the slaves never documented shit…just stories retold and regurgitated among themselves into 50 different versions…they still do it today.

    …..the brits got proof, bring your proof.


  25. Show me where in that letter Bussa or a 1000 appears….. I must conclude that you lack comprehension skills……you are unable to answer a simple question…….by virtue of which no proof exists……the readers will take my point.

  26. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    I never said the 1000 was in the letter I posted, it is in the article you posted that they news got from the british archives, get a grip on ya self…you posted this, read the article again, that you posted.

    “In 1816, by which time the plantations had passed through the hands of Abraham Carleton and his son, also Abraham (1754-96), and were owned by Abraham Parry Cumberbatch (born 1794), a slave called Bussa led a bloody rebellion.

    ‘Furniture of every description, rum, sugar, wine, corn, and every species of food which had been stored were promiscuously scattered in the roads and fields near to dwelling houses,’ recalled Edward Codd, a British soldier, in a letter home to London. ‘The rapidity and destruction evinced the fury of the insurgents.’

    In the two months the uprising lasted, Bussa and an estimated 1,000 of his fellow slaves were killed. A further 214 were executed after the rebellion had been put down, and 123 slaves shipped off the island.”

    Besides ya dont have a leg to stand on, your anecdotes are fairytales so watered down through the centuries that they have become unrecognizable. ..yall just trying to steal credit from an African born leader of the rebellion and give it to some nonexistent mulatto who was a crook and shady as hell, according to the book, just to make yaselves look good.

    Soon ya will be telling me that ya are a direct descendant of Franklin…who is nowhere in the british archives…..

    It’s a good thing the british documented every one of their evil crimes…no matter how heinous or petty…..which makes an even better case for REPARATIONS……..you liars.

  27. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    And all my statements still stand….bring ya proof.

    Anecdotes are not proof…they can be found throughout the Caribbean, in US, UK, Canada and anywhere the blight of slavery touched…bring hard evidence…proof…Vincent.

    We know the brits are liars, for centuries they have been liars, but to debunk those lies…cause YOU said they are lying….bring your proof.

    Besides, apparently. ..there were 2 incidents on that plantation, show me proof of the second one.

    That is the problem right there, someone who was not even born in 1816 wrote a book based on anecdotes which in and of themselves are not reliable without solid proof, replacing an African born slave as leader of the rebellion, with a loose moral mulatto of shady character heading 20,000 into rebellion at Bayley’s plantation..which has to be taken with several cups of salt…..

    Then….ya have the british version of a letter written by a governor of those times that an African born slave Bussa…led the rebellion with 1000 slaves in attendance..

    Ya see the problem…the brits had their fingers. ..all of them…on the pulse of the island, nothing happened without their knowledge. .or without them competently documenting every detail…and archiving their own crimes…so, I tend to believe the british version..cause the slaves never documented shit…just stories retold and regurgitated among themselves into 50 different versions…they still do it today.

    …..the brits got proof, bring your proof.

  28. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    “Bussa’s rebellion (14–16 April 1816) was the largest slave revolt in Barbadian history. The rebellion takes its name from the African-born slave, Bussa, who led the rebellion which was defeated by British forces. Bussa’s Rebellion was the first of three large-scale slave rebellions in the British West Indies that shook public faith in slavery in the years leading up to the abolition of slavery in the British Empire and emancipation of former slaves. It was followed by the large-scale rebellion in Demerara in 1823 and by an even larger rebellion in Jamaica in 1831–32. Collectively these are often referred to as the “late slave rebellions”.

  29. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    British documented and archived every crime they committed against Africans for centuries, every event as they happened on the islands…what anecdote what…both you and Karl Watson should be put in prison for spreading such lies.


  30. For most of the period, the rates of death among slaves outnumbered birth rates. These people were literally worked to death.’

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    … and yet the slave population doubled between 1649 and 1810

    Imagine that!!!!!


  31. He was following a well-trodden path. At the time, younger sons of wealthy families (who did not typically stand to inherit vast riches), would often decide to venture to the New World in search of a fortune.
    It was a perilous move. Roughly half of those who set sail to the Caribbean would either perish during the journey or die from disease during their first three years overseas.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    ….. I have seen a 20% death rate for slaves on the middle passage!!

    So the article is suggestion that you were more likely to survive the voyage if you stayed in the hold, in cramped confined spaces.

    Amazing …. I could never imagine that!!!


  32. … perhaps it was the disease on Barbados that did it.

    Luckily, the slaves were seasoned in their first years that is to say they were not given any hard work to do and allowed to acclimatise!!

    Those poor English people, made to suffer the voyage and then to die like flies of disease.

    Better to be a slave.

    Actually there were high death rates in both populations!!

  33. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Yall cant stop African people from surviving…yall did not learn anything…no matter how many Haitian get killed by disease or poverty, disaster or whatever…there are still over 10 million Haitians in Haiti.,, African descent.

    No matter how many wars are fought in some African countries…drought, famine, no matter…there are now over 1 billion people living in Africa’s 50 countries…

    ya cannot kill off the African race, they have always been here and are here to stay…long after yall are gone, the African tribe will live on…

    And everyone is noticing yall keep dwindling in numbers…ya might want to spend some time figuring out why…lol


  34. Richard Goddard wrote about the mill and outhouse at Bawdens that dissappeared and I heard a similar story happened at Richmond
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    He told me about Burnt house opposite Breedy’s Windmill.

    In 1938, the rainfall guage overflowed at 13 inches.

    Showed me a picture of the land movement … like a moonscape.

    That’s why I looked at Nicholas Abbey as the more likely plantation from which profits could have been made by the Cumberbatch family ….. but it also went into chancery from which the Cumberbatch family bought it.

    Cleland is a most unlikely plantation to have been profitable.

    I think the Beeb has been taken for a ride!!

  35. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Very impressive…..population of Africa = 1.216129815 billion people

    Population of Africa (2017 and historical)
    Year Population Yearly % Change
    2016 1,216,129,815 2.53 %

    And that does not even include the worldwide populations of African descendants.


  36. The below the hill Scotland District Plantations of which Cleland would be on the border were always labour intensive as they are susceptable to landslides,soil erosion and generally difficult to mechanise even in the days of limited mechanisation. Could they have made money with sufficient slaves bearing in mind the upkeep was becoming more expensive.
    +++++++++++++++++++

    The second largest plantation in Barbados in 1859 was Walkers in St. Andrew, 708 acres.

    The largest was Kendal at 751 acres.

    You know the land, how much can grow sugar cane?

    Which one would have had the larger number of slaves?

    1817 returns show Kendal/Halletts had 419

    Walkers had 244 slaves.

    Why the 2 to 1 ratio?


  37. Most slaves in 1817 Barbados lived in St. Michael!!!

    18,274 out of about 77,493.

    About half lived in Bridgetown,

    St. John had 5,469

    St. Andrew had 3,394.

    Christ Church and St. Philip, the largest parishes had 9,917 and 9,535.

    There was a surplus of labour.

    Plantations were over populated with slaves.

    Each one had to feed, clothe, house and provide medical attention for each slave, from cradle to grave.


  38. WW&C

    Poor you…..comprehension escapes you…proven beyond a shadow of doubt.


  39. Walkers has lots of rab land made up of gullies and sandy soil despite its size would not be able to compete with plantations on top the hill likewise Cleland.

    I would agree that the credibilty of those is in question.

  40. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    Ya have no choice but to change the subject…lol

    No proof.

  41. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    “In Barbados, a slave revolt occurred in 1816, led by Bussa. In Guyana there was the Demerara Rebellion of 1795. In the British Virgin Islands, minor slave revolts occurred in 1790, 1823 and 1830. In the Danish West Indies an 1848 slave revolt led to emancipation of all slaves in the Danish West Indies.”

  42. Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger. Avatar
    Well Well & Consequences Observing Blogger.

    You dont hear anyone in Jamaica saying:

    Sam Sharpe or Tacky did not lead their rebellion…only you clowns in Barbados want to make up people who were never documented.

    Between 1662 and 1807 Britain shipped 3.1 million Africans across the Atlantic Ocean in the Transatlantic Slave Trade. Africans were forcibly brought to British owned colonies in the Caribbean and sold as slaves to work on plantations. Those engaged in the trade were driven by the huge financial gain to be made, both in the Caribbean and at home in Britain.

    Enslaved people constantly rebelled against slavery right up until emancipation in 1834. Most spectacular were the slave revolts during the 18th and 19th centuries, including: Tacky’s rebellion in 1760s Jamaica, the Haitian Revolution (1789), Fedon’s 1790s revolution in Grenada, the 1816 Barbados slave revolt led by Bussa, and the major 1831 slave revolt in Jamaica led by Sam Sharpe.

    Also voices of dissent began emerging in Britain, highlighting the poor conditions of enslaved people. Whilst the Abolition movement was growing, so was the opposition by those with financial interests in the Caribbean.

    The British slave trade officially ended in 1807, making the buying and selling of slaves from Africa illegal; however, slavery itself had not ended. It was not until 1 August 1834 that slavery ended in the British Caribbean following legislation passed the previous year. This was followed by a period of apprenticeship with freedom coming in 1838.

    Even after the end of slavery and apprenticeship the Caribbean was not totally free. Former enslaved people received no compensation and had limited representation in the legislatures. Indentured labour from India and China was introduced after slavery. This system resulted in much abuse and was not abolished until the early part of the 20th century. After indenture, Indians and Africans struggled to own land and create their own communities.”

  43. TheGazer Likes pelau Avatar
    TheGazer Likes pelau

    You mean that you send back Vincent article to him. He probably missed it or read it as

    “In Barbados, a slave revolt occurred in 1816, led by Pelau. “

  44. millertheanunnaki Avatar

    @ John September 26, 2017 at 3:04 PM
    “… perhaps it was the disease on Barbados that did it.
    Luckily, the slaves were seasoned in their first years that is to say they were not given any hard work to do and allowed to acclimatise!!
    Those poor English people, made to suffer the voyage and then to die like flies of disease.
    Better to be a slave.
    Actually there were high death rates in both populations!!”

    You, Sir John, have to stop with your doublespeak of contradictions.

    On the one hand (in a related post) you were extolling the humanitarian virtues of the plantation system which provided the slaves with ready accessibility to excellent health care based on the standards of the day.

    In addition, this free and effective health care system which protected the slave owners’ investment was ably supported by the beneficent contributions of your Quaker ancestors in carrying out their English Christian duty in full Samaritan style towards their unfortunate inferior enslaved black brethren even so much as to make them equal in death by sharing the same 6ft of real estate in God’s Evergreen Acre.

    Now you are ashamedly admitting there was a high death rate among the very slaves.

    Now what could have caused this high death rate?

    Was it from malaria and Aids brought from West Africa by green and black monkeys or was it caused by the viruses and infectious bacteria like yellow fever and cholera embedded in the European stock of both the resident and the sailing limey variety?

    And please don’t tell us Florence Nightingale was a Quaker from Lightfoot Lane!


  45. WC

    Between 1662 and 1807 Britain shipped 3.1 million Africans across the Atlantic Ocean in the Transatlantic Slave Trade.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Google – Britain was the most dominant between 1640 and 1807 when the British slave trade was abolished. It is estimated that Britain transported 3.1 million Africans (of whom 2.7 million arrived) to the British colonies in the Caribbean, North and South America and to other countries.

    Figured you would fall for it.

    You went and checked the death rate on the Middle Passage from Africa, 2.7 million Africans arrived out of 3.1 million.

    I had always heard 20% but this means the death rate was 8.37%, less than 10%.

    For slaves on the Trans Saharan Route out of Africa, the death rate was about 80% – 90% … check it and see.

    More than ten times higher.

    Actually if you check this article by Marcus Garvey you will see he says “While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!”

    http://originalpeople.org/the-arab-muslim-slave-trade-of-africans-the-untold-story/

    So for every 3.1 million slaves taken by the Trans Saharan Route out of Africa by the Arabs, less than 270,000 arrived.

    Marcus Garvey goes on to say:

    “While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth. It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

    While Christian Reformers spearheaded the antislavery abolitionist movements in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilized her Navy, throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set the captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the Muslim world..”


  46. Now you are ashamedly admitting there was a high death rate among the very slaves.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I was actually sending WC on an errand to check his facts.

    He returned from the errand I am sure, amazed!!


  47. I am assuming again!!!

    his/her facts.

    If you are a lady, I apologise.


  48. … and he/she

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