est. 2007

Barbados Underground

Bringing News and Opinions to the People

Crime Taking Deep Root

Submitted by Serenity Crime and why we will never be able to reduce the most violent manifestations of it. In today’s paper NATION page 6a the defence for the recently concluded trial of the aggravated burglary of the Nation Newspaper offices in Fontabelle suggested the men be given a fine and that they are willing…

,
Submitted by Serenity
…main drivers which develop a country or regress it is access to education, health and the feeling of security…

“…main drivers which develop a country or regress it is access to education, health and the feeling of security…”

 

Crime and why we will never be able to reduce the most violent manifestations of it.

In today’s paper NATION page 6a the defence for the recently concluded trial of the aggravated burglary of the Nation Newspaper offices in Fontabelle suggested the men be given a fine and that they are willing to pay back the money. Let’s examine the crime they were found guilty of by a jury. The facts which are no longer in dispute is that they planned the robbery a month in advance down to a change of clothes, used a firearm and threatened the persons present in order to steal.

Should the Court see fit to release these individuals it will set the following precedent for all such cases of aggravated burglary involving the use of a firearm. All former persons sentenced to anything but a fine and all future perpetrators of a similar crime could argue persuasively based on the judgement in this case. Therefore the message we are sending is that it is a trivial thing to enter into any building armed with a gun, threaten the lives of the persons present unless they comply and steal anything in the building.

I used to think simple possession of drugs or traffic cases were minor crimes, but it seems to me that if successful, aggravated burglary will join the new list of minor crimes in this country. Therefore expect to be robbed daily and nightly as you commute or walk the streets because robbery would now be like swearing compared to aggravated burglary.

The main drivers which develop a country or regress it is access to education, health and the feeling of security. We know where we stand on health since the cuts, we know where we stand on security according to the courts recent sentencing of violent offenders and we are in the process of limiting access to higher education shortly by barrier of financing. The message of any society to such offenders as these should be that this will not be tolerated whether people were hurt or not.

The recent robberies of several arcades and the rise in aggravated burglaries around the island is a clear indicator that the message is being heard by the perpetrators. The wrong message. It is hardly any wonder why anyone in the police force would even care to respond to such crimes. But we shall continue to sow this seed because our populace is too passive to do anything else.

38 responses to “Crime Taking Deep Root”

  1. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    The defence attorneys made the best of a bad job. I don’t think the post writer has anything to fear, But since sentencing is on Friday, why don’t we just wait and see.

  2. dompey Avatar
    dompey

    Ross
    I am not familiar which Bristish jurisprudence which forms the basis of Caribbean law and British Common Law which constitutes the basis of American Jurisprudence.

    Now, in America we have two court systems, Federal and State. In the state judicial system the judge is given more latitude to rule on a case, than in the federal system. So he can sentence an accused from minimum to the maximum or at his latitude/ discretion.

    In the federal court system the law is absolute because it is written in stone; it’s predicated upon what is known as Federal Sentencing Guidelines. For example: if an accused is convicted of carrying an unlawful firearm without a permit and the federal sentencing guidelines stipulates 5 years a sentence; it is the 5 years he will get. On the other hand, if the state should bring those same charges against the accused, the judge in state case has the latitude to sentence at he own discretion. So in the above case the judge seems to be operating at his own latitude, as for as sentencing is concern? And it obviously sets the precedent as expressed above!

  3. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    OFF MESSAGE: Serenity, apologies for hijacking your excellent post.
    I stumbled across an article in yesterday’s Nation (which may have gone under the radar) whilst drinking my morning coffee. I have lifted the article from the above mentioned paper. You can draw your own conclusions:
    MAKE BABIES!!
    By John Sealy | Thu, March 20, 2014 – 12:08 AM
    BARBADOS needs a population of 325 000 people, and if Minister of Education Ronald Jones gets his way, it will become a reality in ten years.

    Jones, who was speaking in the House of Assembly on the Appropiation Bill 2014-2015 yesterday, made a case for a larger population so that local businesses could have access to a more diverse consumer base.

    “Barbados needs a slightly bigger population. The land size of 166 square miles must not be a hindrance . . . . If it can’t be reproduced in Barbados – because the Barbados Family Planning Association (BFPA) has overdone its job – then we must open our doors and [invite] a careful selection of those who can deliver children and within a certain age range.”

    He said an increase in population would “make sense of the programmes we are looking to develop in Barbados: more people paying taxes, more people eating our agricultural produce and utilising our manufactured goods and services.

  4. David Avatar
    David

    Thanks Exclaimer, one wonders what analysis undertaken is supporting Jones’ position.

  5. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    @ David, I refuse to take a position or pass comment. I will leave that to those who follow this incomparable website.
    @Serenity, once again apologies for hijacking your post.

  6. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    Crime and unemployment specifically the dwindling prospects of finding a job are interrelated.

    As governments (globally) find themselves incapable of facilitating the mechanisms of growth and vibrant economies the attendant consequences are increasing crime.

    Quite simple maths, if a man with options loses his job, his innate skills give him alternatives, others lower in the socio-economic order find themselves scrunting to survive when the type of job options that they are skilled for disappear overnight

    @ Ross

    Yes we should wait until Friday and see. Yet there is a need for there to be a strict adherence to sentencing guidelines and not a system administered by the like of Madame Justice Kentish, or the DPP Leacock based on hot flashes experienced by the former and lack of Jheri Curl lotion with the latter..

    @ Exclaimer

    I rest my case per the ineptitude of this administration embodies in the likes of super incompetent Education Minister Ronald Jones.

    Here is a man who sows to the entire world how Phvcking stupid he is in one fail swoop! Tell me, by which divining rod is the ingrunt Minister goint to be able to see if a external denizen is fertile?

    Does he plan to have the same immigration officers who “examined” Myrie conduct fertility tests on the prospective baby makers?

    Does he plan to have some impregnation policy and plant at the GAIA where women are summarily fooped and, on becoming pregnant, will be allowed to enter the island?

    He is a female Rabbit without equal for as education minister who should be able to speak to some specific strategy and programme that his MoE in conjunction with the UWI or the elitist secondary schools will be deploying an initiative for gifted kids which in 2 years will produce students with “x” skills for deployment as “trained whatevers” that we will export to Saudi Arabia where the other inept arm of the Ministry of labour, headed by his colleague Ester Sucker-do, has researched and established a work programme for said skilled graduates.

    But then again these are the choices that we make every five years of inept BLP and DLP representatives

    “It is a most interesting thing when so called wise people appoint even stupider people, and pay them over $15,000 a month, six times the average salary of the people who gave them the responsibility in the first place, to make decisions that impacts on if they voters continue to get that $3,000/month”

    If only the ingrunt voters (which we prove to be every single time by voting for this offal) demanded that these whom we have voted for, implement THE POWER OF RECALL then we would have a tool in our hands that we could wield in our defense with these PHVCKERS who run amok, without any sanction, and continue to do us wrong

    You could imagine how easy it would be to effect the Power of Recall on that shite Jones this morning?.

  7. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    Dompey American justice???
    black guilty
    latino guilty
    hillbilly guilty
    rich kid, oh well boys will be boys

  8. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Exclaimer | March 20, 2014 at 5:49 AM |
    “ He said an increase in population would “make sense of the programmes we are looking to develop in Barbados: more people paying taxes, more people eating our agricultural produce and utilising our manufactured goods and services.”

    The Guyanese his administration rounded up like cattle and deported were doing what he is now asking for.
    Retribution (Karma) is a bitch!

    From where is he expecting to source the importation of superhuman genetic material ever so needed to dilute the local DNA bowl of stupidity of which the same doubly cloned jackass Jones is a perfect specimen? Pakistan or Nigeria?

    Barbados needs to export people not add to the roll of the exponentially progressing unemployed. What the hell is Jones going to do with the thousands of UWI graduates in the coming years? Send them back to the cane fields? Why not look outwards and see them as potential forex earners for export?

    “A man may be born a jackass; but it is his business if he makes himself a double one.” ~Martin H. Fischer

  9. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Dompey

    As I said early this morning, I really don’t think the post writer has anything to worry about. I wouldn’t be surprised if these fellas received 15-20 years – maybe even more. The gun by itself is a seven year job. For aggravated burglary – burglary with a firearm – offhand I think the penalty is a maximum of Life.

    On guidelines. We don’t have ‘official’ guidelines here as in the UK (for some offences at least). But we do have guideline cases. that’s to say cases in which the appeal court has sought to set boundaries. I have a feeling that Fisher is the case which governs aggravated burglary – but am not 100% sure because I haven’t had my second cup of coffee yet.

    Most statutory offences determine the maximum term which must be served – which is why the attorneys in the post case tried to argue as they did. I don’t want to say it unkindly – but I think they were out of their league on this one.

    For myself, I’m not a fan of ‘official’ guidelines. They are not all-or-nothing anyway – ie when does a ‘guideline’ become a rule? Some necessarily involve judgement. EG in the UK you have to determine the ‘role’ of the offender – a leading role, and two lesser cases The judge has to weigh up various listed factors to decide into which category an accused falls by balancing the various factors exhibited in the case. Not all cases are covered by a ‘guideline’ anyway.

    EG is the supply of benzocaine to be treated in the same way as the supply of cocaine? In one recent decision, Watling, the Court said yes it should be though there was no official guideline other than for cocaine supply.

  10. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Piece

    It is a contradiction to say that there must be a strict adherence to a ‘guideline’ in which there may be suggested maxima and minima. And I see nothing wrong with a Court ignoring a guideline altogether if the justice/mercy equation requires it. For Dompey: Justice Cardozo, who had read his Micah, once wrote “Let it be my will that my justice be ruled by my mercy” – and despite all the thrashings about of ‘three thrusts’ I would go with that. Of the two people you mention, I am not a fan of the latter. The former, despite the apparent eccentricity, has a very soft centre and I have a very real regard for her – of course, not untypically, against the pricks (of the BU ‘family’).

  11. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    Oh Anunnaki

    I fear that clear thoughts geared at meaningful results are anathema for this string of politicians that have come to the ballot boxes.

    I died many times as these assassins spoke, for indeed these are the true criminals of our society, bringing a violent death to the erstwhile image of orators that our Parlaiment held in men like the Dipper, Tom Adams, Sir Richie, Brandford Taitt.

    Can you imagine the laughter that the US Ambassador would have had when he and his Political Advisor reviewed the threat status of islands in the Caribbean region as they also reviewed the daily report on Venezuela?

    You see how we are likened to monkeys that have only of late descended from the trees?

    This after all is our Minister of Education who sets policy and facilitates programming for our entire nation. An excerpt from their site reads “The Ministry of Education, Science, Technology and Innovation (METI) is the Government agency responsible for the formulation of educational and human resource development policies and for the administration and regulation of education and human resource development programmes.”

    Led by this FEMALE RABBIT!!

    They even have a section called “Planning, Research & International Relations” given his recent performance it would more aptly be renamed “How to Shame your Cuntry and Undermine International Relations”

    Again i shall plagiarize from John F Kennedy “”My fellow Bajns, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.” which when responded to by Ronald “Ignorance personified” Jones is “mek we de laughing stock of the Caribbean Sea”

    This is emblematic of the Sluggit ideation of this administration

  12. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Would someone be prepared to argue that the rise in crime figures has been caused by

    (1) white people;
    (2) slavery;
    (3) men beating women or women killing men who do; and
    (4) the DLP?

  13. PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926 TO 2014 , MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS OF BARBADOS, BLPand DLP=Massive Fruad Avatar
    PLANTATION DEEDS FROM 1926 TO 2014 , MASSIVE FRAUD ,LAND TAX BILLS AND NO DEEDS OF BARBADOS, BLPand DLP=Massive Fruad

    Barbados needs more People to help pay of the debt the DBLP government look to get us into , The debt is then divided by the amount of people to the debt to let us know how much each person would have to pay to pay it off,
    We think the USofA at one point was abut 50,000uds per citizen needed to pay off the US debt. So would then have to divided the number of people in Barbados by 270 to 290,000 or so in to 4 , 5 , or 6 Billion Dollars , I am sure that a math person can get the true Numbers

  14. Sam Shank Avatar
    Sam Shank

    We (Barbados) should do like the UK. Commit a crime with a weapon of any kind and you get jail – no option.

  15. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    But Sam Shark – we do that anyway with everyone who spend years on remand despite the presumption of innocence.

  16. Gabriel Avatar
    Gabriel

    Lawson
    You are so spot on on American Justice.They are worse than South Africa when a university lecturer can be asked to produce ID in his own home and then beaten up and arrested for being in his own home.Now there is Stand your Ground,applicable only to the same ethnic groups you identified in roles of oppressor and oppressed,so called.
    Ross
    As I recall some time ago when D Simmons was AG,he introduced sentencing guidelines for gun crimes.I think there was a challenge and they were withdrawn.Am i correct?
    Miller
    You forgot that the dead king Thompson had a useful ally in the minister responsible for immigration,who is still in that seat of justice.
    Podyr
    Is your reference to Female Rabbit any connection to peoples’ sexual preferences.You mean fairies? F some people is active fairies say so nuh man!

  17. Yagga Rowe Avatar
    Yagga Rowe

    There has been the view that the population of Barbados needs to be increased. There is also the view that the gene pool should be widened
    However the present Govt is at loss in most things.
    I agree with Jones
    but try telling to career Barbadian woman , who builds a house and live in it by herself. Men hardly build houses and do not put a woman in them.

    Also chasing out the Guyanese was a bad idea
    The economy sunk thereafter

  18. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Gabriel

    What I can say is that in Bovell (2002) the Chief Justice delineated guidelines in firearms cases having regard to the terms of the Penal System Reform Act 1998 and the amended Firearms legislation of the same year. He did the same, eg, in Prescod in relation to drugs. The CA decision in Pope on firearms caused a bit of a stir though in that it seemed to gainsay the rules on firearms. In fact, he upheld the sentence imposed by Reifer J and the accused was a minor; and my view is that the decision, humane as it was, was entirely justifiable on legal grounds.

    The Penal System Reform Act introduced many reforms borrowed from England, in particular the suspended sentence. Sections 35 and 36 are key sections on sentencing.

    You only have to read Simmons’ judgments to see what a fine judge he was, and his writings, which were often on the theme of delay, and which establish him as an international jurist who would be accounted ‘top flight’ anywhere. What have we come to?

  19. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Oh I should have said – though we’ve debated it often enough – ‘stand your ground’ legislation is the US equivalent of the common law principle that in self-defence cases there’s no longer any duty to retreat before acting in self-defence.

  20. Yagga Rowe Avatar
    Yagga Rowe

    Make Babies
    I am ready
    Good Stock
    Ladies I am available

  21. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ Gabriel

    I date myself with the use of the work “coney” and its recent crudism cunny and its shorter version cvnt as in the female gender of rabbit, as in 97% of our HoA and the rest of the stragglers on.

    It is not really with reference to sexual preferences although …

    No for the most part the ole man was only playing on the word for female rabbit.

    I ent want to get ban fuh cursing, nor get David[BU] close down for hosting obscenities nor have the DPP and the Commissioner of Police come for me like dem went for Roy Morris and Vivianne Gittens for peverting the minds of the youth with the lascivious material that Sankey publish, the ole pervert that he is…

    I was wondering though since I ent get de pic at the Nation wid Viviane if somebody cyan put in a word fuh me as a political speechifier for (both sides of) these inept politicians so dat I, could do some speech writing for dem clowns.

    I was tinking dat I cudda form a team (which I wud lead of course) aided by Donkey (dat is whu my erstwhile sweetie Islandgirl does call he) and my next friend AC (who depending pun who writing is eider de husband or de wife) would share de editorial materials.

    I did tinking dat dem cun do no worse dan de three uh we and effing dem would each gi’ like a two hundred each to de 3 uh we dat would amount to $6000 a munt which i would, using Chris Sinkliar mathematics, after setting up a shell company wid Darcy B in Guernsey, would divide by 3 and Donkey and AC would get $100 to divide between de two uh dem

    Whu you tink??

  22. pieceuhderockyeahright Avatar
    pieceuhderockyeahright

    @ Baffy

    I hear dat de MoE “Edrucation” Ronald Jones want to hire able bodies menses like you to increase de population of Bulbados.

    I ent tink dat you heah bout dis job opportunity nor i ent tink dat Bush Tea heah bout it eider.

    I was gine offer my services but i get disbar causing uh de goadies en ting but jes in case wunna fellows din listening tuh de Ministah I keeping wunna up to date en ting

    I wondering if CBC DLP TV gine tape dese illiterates speaking and rebroadcast them pun Saturday en Sunday?

    The Spanish Inquisition, Chinese Water torture, Bloody Mary a la Bulbados Style

  23. just want to know Avatar
    just want to know

    The M of E is a real joke. Here is a man who is suppose to be making educational programmes for our young, is encouraging them to be involved in sex. Isn’t their enough children in Barbados today that need care & protection, in proper education, health care, & security, & many of them are without fathers in the home? So many women are struggling to get money through the courts for these children, & he is encouraging more of the same? Why doesn’t M of E, & some of his colleagues go & make some. Open up a place where there is first come first serves. What a waste less contribution to a debate that need some real meaning to our livelihood .

  24. Serenity Avatar
    Serenity

    There will always be mitigating circumstances in some crimes. This is not one of them. I am not pre-judging or jumping to conclusions. If we are to follow the rule of law, we had a trial and they were found guilty, so we must accept the facts as they are. As they are, there are no mitigating circumstances. So no one got hurt, this means “commit crime but don’t hurt anyone”, we can’t have an orderly society this way.

    I do not want to laugh in your face Robert Ross, but if people get 7-10 years for killing others I find it hilariously you actually believe they could get 15-20 or more. I would be VERY surprised if they got the minimum seven years.

    I would be even more surprised if they got 10 or more years. If aggravated burglary (a burglary committed with a weapon, while persons are present in the building, think robbery but in a building, force is used on the victims) if this now be a non-violent classed crime, what could be violent? We are sending the wrong message of leniency with these high end crimes. I fear not for myself but for my children. I don’t want to go live somewhere else, I like my country, culture and people. I don’t want it overrun by thugs who plead mercy, ignorance and rough child hoods at the courts.

    I am all for some type of offender monitoring, if there was a way OTHER than sentencing these two bandits to prison until they reach old age, to ENSURE that they did not commit another such crime I am all for it. I believe technology might help in this regard. If they are monitored electronically and a crime occurs and they were no where near, we can rule them out.

    It would ease prison populations while being a barrier to re-offending. And technology such as this has advanced so far these days, it is almost completely automated. Example: person tampers with or goes somewhere he shouldn’t? Police are notified by a TEXT message. Just like bank silent alarms.

    I want to be wrong about this, but wrong or right, I hope to bring attention to the issue so that the Court’s and other powers know that we are watching and we expect they have our interests in mind.

    No longer is our three basic needs, food clothing and shelter. But safety, peace and justice. For what could be more wrong than to not have access to justice?

  25. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Make Babies…….Jones can’t control a few school yard bullies but he’s encouraging the young to create more, does it escape this fool that it’s the very young and inexperienced who are the most sexually active in any society, how will Jones feed an additional 60,000 Bajans when they can’t feed themselves and he will have to crack heads and shoot people.

  26. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Piece, Stuart is boasting about ministers of the crown, it’s hard to for him to see himself and his gang as mere GREMLINS of the crown.

  27. lawson Avatar
    lawson

    As I said before how much air can you put into a balloon, over population will lead to more crime, less of a standard of living if that’s possible, a bleaker future, but in the near term the politicians will keep the revenue stream coming in with more taxes , they gotta get paid.

  28. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Lawson………….you are forgetting they will also have a steady supply of clueless, programmed, brainwashed voters on hand every elections, as i said ministers/politicians are mere GREMLINS of the crown, waste of space, as Piece would say, waste f**ps.

  29. dompey Avatar
    dompey

    Serenity

    You ought and must study Abraham Maslow’s (Hierarchy of Needs), if you haven’t already. What you have described are the physical needs. What about the emotional needs?

  30. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    If we are worried about the revenue stream, why don’t we reinstate the workers who were sent home for starters?

  31. Colonel Buggy. Avatar
    Colonel Buggy.

    Well Well | March 20, 2014 at 12:44 PM |

    Make Babies…….Jones can’t control a few school yard bullies but he’s encouraging the young to create more, does it escape this fool that it’s the very young and inexperienced who are the most sexually active in any society, how will Jones feed an additional 60,000 Bajans when they can’t feed themselves and he will have to crack heads and shoot people.
    ……………………………………………………………………………
    With this number of jobless, functionally illiterates that they will be cloned to be, people like Jones, who will promise them the world every five years, will be sure of a seat in parliament and a hefty pension to follow for years to come.
    But meanwhile , we are at the starting block with the Chinese and Asians.

  32. Colonel Buggy. Avatar
    Colonel Buggy.

    Perhaps Jones is telling the Family Planning Department in a subtle way, that that Department is no longer needed, and is one of the casualties slated for government cuts, or absorb into The Ministry of Sports -. Bare Sport.

  33. Exclaimer Avatar
    Exclaimer

    Will the Barbados media request the Minister of Education, Ronald Jones, to fully explain his statement made in the House of Assembly on the Appropiation Bill 2014-2015. I have re-read the article in yesterday’s Nation and am none the wiser.

    This article as it appears in the Nation strikes me as been both incomprehensible and sinister. Has the Nation faithfully portrayed what the Minister articulated or has it been mischievous in its journalism. Either way the public demands and requires an instant reply from the Minister of Education to clear up this mess.

    Let’s give this Minister an opportunity to fully explain himself before we castigate and question his abilities as a senior minister.

  34. Gabriel Avatar
    Gabriel

    Ross
    Caswell Franklyn suggested that instead of laying of workers and paying them for staying home for the next 6 months,Cabinet should have put them on a shortened work week,he suggested 3 days.That way they will be earning and working and contributing to the revenue stream instead of being a charge on it.A good idea,but I know too that when its time to cut a budget,the first item is personnel….not constiuency councils,not free bus rides,not bleeding-the-privy-purse statutory corporations,not reduction in the cabinet,not reduction in the salaries/perks of ministers and parliamentary secretaries,not in the number of galas and excuses for the fatted calf brigade to fleece the taxpayers.It’s so much easier to ‘send home people’.

  35. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Gabriel

    And Caswell had a point as also you. The ‘three-day week’ has an honourable pedigree.

  36. dompey Avatar
    dompey

    Gabriel

    You stopped short of mentioning why was the university lecturer asked to produced an ID in his own home. If the police office had reasonable suspicion that the university lecturer was a person of interest in a crime; he is on the legal standing to ask for his ID. The Third Amendment to United State Constitution writes: ” The right of people to be secured in persons’ papers, houses and effects against unreasonable searches seizures shall not be violated, nor shall a warrant be issued but upon probable cause supported by an oath or affirmation particularly describing the person or thing to be seized.” Now, if the university lecturer felt that his constitutional rights were being violated, then he could have complied with the police wishes and have his lawyer argued for motion to dismiss and then sue the police department for punitive damages. The issue at hand is whether or not the police officer had probable cause, based on reasonable suspicion to enter a private property without a warrant.

  37. Serenity Avatar
    Serenity

    And he did have probably cause because he was responding to a 911 call of a burglar trying to get into that house. But that stupid idiot Gates, thought he was being racially profiled when asked to produce proof he was the owner. The policeman was actually trying to protect his own house, how can he know he is the owner unless he tells him? Instead of launching into a tirade. If I were the policeman I would have told Obama stick it when invited to the white house.

  38. robert ross Avatar
    robert ross

    Well – what happened on Friday?

Leave a Reply to Colonel Buggy.Cancel reply

Trending

Discover more from Barbados Underground

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading