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The C&E Lacks Balls!

Barbados is a country built on so-called Christian values and where Barbadians boast that a church can be found on every street, in every village and highway. The dominant religion remains Anglican-Christian. The recent announcement by the Church of England (C&E) to allow gay clergy in civil partnerships to become bishops has the potential to…

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In 2003 gay cleric Jeffrey John became Bishop of Reading but had to withdraw after the row which ensued - Image credit BBC
In 2003 gay cleric Jeffrey John became Bishop of Reading but had to withdraw after the row which ensued – Image credit BBC

Barbados is a country built on so-called Christian values and where Barbadians boast that a church can be found on every street, in every village and highway. The dominant religion remains Anglican-Christian.

The recent announcement by the Church of England (C&E) to allow gay clergy in civil partnerships to become bishops has the potential to split the C&E. The implication for Barbados given our Commonwealth affiliation and willingness to use the United Kingdom as a proxy for decision making is wide.

BU’s last blog on a related issue  – Church of England Under Pressure to Change – addressed the failure of the C&E to allow the female clergy to be elevated in the role of bishop. After 12 years of deliberation the House of Laity in the C&E shot it down. Some commenters resorted to technical positions to explain the two issues which continue to challenge the C&E; that is, they are driven by different considerations. BU disagrees.

The scenario as we understand it: you can be gay and in a civil partnership and the C&E will allow you to be a priest and bishop, so long as you declare celibacy and make a confession of your sins of homosexuality. We all know that this change can easily be described as bollocks! How can one expect a priest in a homosexual relationship to declare celibacy? How honest, realistic and sustainable is this expectation by the C&E? Bullocks!

In the meantime, women, whether celibate or not, cannot be bishops because they are women and because of a biological deficiency which sees them owning a vagina instead of a penis, they are being discriminated against. Is it any wonder there is a drift away from the traditional Church.

It appears the C&E traditionalists have a huge battle to conquer in the coming weeks, months years to maintain stability. The issue here is about hypocrisy in the decision making of the C&E and does not mean that BU is pushing the gay agenda.

  1. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Look

    BTW大卫是不会让您张贴在法国，要么…HA HA HA谈论自由的修辞格…事实上，谈论种族主义。法国是欧洲的，所以它会被禁止…但我的百姓语言不计…哈哈哈

  2. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Miller

    我相信你的意思是罕见的艺术形式，而不是后面的艺术形式哈哈哈

  3. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    de hood | January 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM |
    @ GP
    Best wishes to you & your family for 2013.THANKS SAME TO YOU SIR

    Now, can you tell me if the word “deacon” in your quote of Timothy can be used interchangeably with “bishop” or if deacon and bishop are two separate offices in the priesthood

    Hoody
    FIRST REMEMBER THAT according to 1 peter 2; 9
    ALL BELIEVERS ARE PRIESTS
    I.E IN THE NT BECAUSE OF THE CROSS WORK OF CHRIST ALL BELIEVERS CAN GO STRAIGHT TO GOD THROUGH OUR MEDIATOR – CHRIST
    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
    LOCAL CHURCHES WERE ALL AUTONOMOUS

    In the NT there were no aggregation of churches into a diocese or a conference. All such designations are man made

    The pastor/teacher refers to the church leader:s ability to teach the word and shepherd the flock [c.f Ephesians 4]:
    Paul uses the term bishop interchangeably for the same office [c.f phil 1].
    Elder is the term used to imply that the church leader was senior or not a whipper snapper youngster. ie he was usually an older experienced person in the faith [cf 1 peter 5]
    Perhaps Zoe can expand on this from his knowledge of Greek.

    Note we have a better understanding of what the greek words used in the NT from the work of scholars like VINE BARCLAY ETC

    Basically the scholars read any koine greek literature to find out the several ways in which a particular greek word was used, to come up with their word studies. Helps a lot .

  4. LOOK Avatar
    LOOK

    @ Miller

    tu monsieur miller, tu sont epais. . . . poche et une niaiseux

  5. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Georgie Porgie | January 6, 2013 at 7:56 PM |
    “ALL BELIEVERS ARE PRIESTS
    I.E IN THE NT BECAUSE OF THE CROSS WORK OF CHRIST ALL BELIEVERS CAN GO STRAIGHT TO GOD THROUGH OUR MEDIATOR – CHRIST”

    PRIESTS AFTER WHICH ORDER?

  6. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    rE David | January 6, 2013 at 7:50 PM |
    @GP

    It is interesting in one of the BBC links above a Bishop no less asserts that there is not enough scripture to properly expose the issue of homosexuality. This of course conflicts with the CLEAR TEACHING OF SCRIPTURE IN BOTH THE OT AND NT.

    What I say, or what any Bishop says has little weight really, unless we are in accordance with what the Bible teaches SINCE CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY FOR FAITH AND PRACTICE.

    THE PROBLEM IS THAT CHRISTENDOM TENDS TO DEVIATE FROM THE RULE BOOK AS WE PONTED OUT FROM TITUS 3:3

  7. de hood Avatar
    de hood

    @ GP
    Seems to me, GP, that a heck of a lot of Christendom are deviants. 🙂

  8. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ LOOK | January 6, 2013 at 7:59 PM |

    VRAIMENT, MON VRAI JUMEAU FRÈRE!
    Le Français, tout de suite!

  9. David Avatar
    David

    Submitted on 2013/01/06 at 8:14 PM | In reply to St George’s Dragon.

    @St.George’s Dragon

    Deleting Look’s comment fell into the discretion BU mentioned. LOOK has an agenda of pushing Plantation Deeds’ and we did what we had to do. An example is now unfolding on the Church blog with Miller and Baffy. If it continues we will have to repeat.If commenters have no interest in a particular blog they should consider that others may.

  10. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    LOL HOOD VERY TRUE
    IF YOU STUDY CHURCH HISTORY THIS IS VERY APPARENT
    But we are not to be surprised on the basis of Luke 18: 88
    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

    The question about the FAITH [Gr pistis} is a rhethorical question demanding the answer NO

  11. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    that should be Luke 18:8 sorry

  12. David Avatar
    David

    @GP

    The issue raised about the disestablishment of the Church if we agree this is the way to go. How do we explain that in Barbados for example we continue to assign ecclesiastical affairs to one minister or the other?

  13. ac Avatar
    ac

    millertheanunnaki | January 6, 2013 at 8:22 PM

    @ LOOK | January 6, 2013 at 7:59 PM

    VRAIMENT, MON VRAI JUMEAU FRÈRE!
    Le Français, tout de suite!

    some people are so rude and inconsiderate.

  14. pat Avatar
    pat

    @ LOOK

    tu sont? c’est ne pas francais. that is patois.

    how come you are ‘tu’ing miller and not “vous”ing?

  15. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    I cant answer your question David. But Im sure you remember that Barrow disestablished the Anglican church. The subventions that they lost plus the fact that around that time the Anglican church started to lose many of its members to Peoples Cathedral and its offshoot Abundant Life, and other megachurches, has caused the finances of the Anglican church to be problematic.

    It would be unfair to say, however, that the established church did not contribute to our society when it held sway- irregardless to any/all of its faults
    I think that the contemporary Anglican church must chart its own course and not pander to the dictates and unscriptural paths of the UK church. We have done it to a large extent in cricket, and college, why not church.

  16. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ BAFBFP | January 6, 2013 at 7:55 PM |

    Je ne sais pas de quoi you parlez.
    Je suis simplement un spécialiste en l’art de soixante-neuf.

  17. LOOK Avatar
    LOOK

    @ ac
    @ miller

    C’est vrai mon amis. cette dame ne bajan ne pas habiter lile barbados un lieu de barbares non la civilization

    @ Pat

    tu utilise seulement ici ac Quebec.

  18. LOOK Avatar
    LOOK

    @ Miller

    Kerrie Symmonds votre partenaire ou 69 d’entre eux. Dale Marshall votre partenaire ou 69 d’entre eux.

  19. de hood Avatar
    de hood

    @ GP
    “But we are not to be surprised on the basis of Luke 18: 88
    I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

    The question about the FAITH [Gr pistis} is a rhethorical question demanding the answer NO!”
    ********************************************************
    Very well said and a very apt quotation, GP. You think they will find any rocks to hide under at that time? 🙂

  20. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    First, there is NO such ‘office’ OR ‘function’ of ANY Mediatorial/Mediating Priesthood in the NT as found in the Anglican church, it simply does not exist.

    After Christ ascension, “And He Himself gave some to be Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers.” ( Eph. 4:11)

    These are the ministerial Gifts to the ‘Church’ NO mediating office or function exist in the NT Church! That is any ‘scaramental’ or ‘sacerdotal’ priesthood as exist in the C of E, Catholicism, Methodism et al.

  21. Colonel Buggy Avatar
    Colonel Buggy

    ac | January 6, 2013 at 7:31 PM |
    btw where did the term “bullers” come from. i searched the dictionary and the result said ‘no results” mr GP you being a learned man maybe you can point me to the meaning
    ………………………………………………………..
    A local farmer recently explained that at times when the cows (females) on the farm are not available for humping, the bull takes a turn on one of his buddies. Hence the term ‘ bulling’ . It could also be that like so many other ‘real’ english words, that were either corrupted or camouflaged during slavery, the word ‘buller’ derived from the term ‘bugger’, the same way that some Brits , refer to a bastard as a basket.

  22. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    Regarding Peter’s reference to NT believers who constitute the ‘true’ church of Jesus Christ, HE said HE* would build.

    “… being BUILT up a spiritual house, a HOLY PRIESTHOOD, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God THROUGH Jesus Christ ( Our ONLY High Priest & Mediator) …but you are a chosen generation, a royal PRIESTHOOD, a holy nation. His own special people, that you may PROCLAIM the PRAISES of Him who called you out of DARKNESS, into His marvelous LIGHT.” ( I Peter 2: 5, 9).

    So, that the NT believer, does NOT need or require any ‘Mediating’ priesthood, as exist in the C of E, or Catholicism, as he/she has direct access to God, through the Only Mediating, High Priest, The Lord Jesus Christ.

    Secondly, the ‘…holy priesthood…or royal priesthood…’ that all true believers constitute, in the NT Church, are TO “….offer UP spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God THROUGH Jesus Christ…proclaim(ing) the PRAISES to of Him…”

    As a ‘Royal Priesthood’ the NT Church worships, praises and Glorifies God, through Jesus Christ, our Only Mediating, High Priest.

  23. David Avatar
    David

    @Zoe

    So why are these C&E theologians so blind who lead that Church?

  24. ac Avatar
    ac

    the church is not relying on the bible for guidance in allowing celibate homosexuals become priest. the church is well aware of the consequences if having to be drawn into long court battles because of discrimination. please note that the bible doesn’t speak of discrimination and its effects on the church. this is a different time and place and the church in order to survive must protect itself from lawsuits and principalities and powers and rulers in high places.

  25. David Avatar
    David

    An update:

    What makes the debate about homosexuality so divisive for Anglicans is that each of the opposing sides sees it as a fundamental issue, and one whose outcome will help to define the Church of England in the future.

    Conservative evangelicals see active homosexuality as sinful; many progressive Anglicans believe full equality for gay people is a Christian imperative, even if that means changing existing church teaching.

    Liberal Anglicans claim that a kind of “don’t ask-don’t tell” policy in the past, has resulted in several gay bishops, some of them with partners, being appointed in the past. They welcome a move towards greater transparency, but don’t accept that gay bishops should have to promise to remain celibate.

    But conservative evangelicals believe the decision is an attempt to win back public approval lost when the Church failed in its attempt in November to clear the way for women bishops.

    So why did the Church take this dramatic step? Part of the reason could lie in fears about whether it might be breaking employment law by discriminating against gay clergy in civil partnerships who are in the running for jobs as bishops.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20918806

  26. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe | January 6, 2013 at 9:56 PM |
    “As a ‘Royal Priesthood’ the NT Church worships, praises and Glorifies God, through Jesus Christ, our Only Mediating, High Priest.”

    We asked GP about this High Priest designation and we got no response. We will now ask you. Since you claim to be such a high-class Biblical scholar what is the Order of this Royal Priesthood called?

  27. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    David to GP

    “It is interesting in one of the BBC links above a Bishop no less asserts that there is not enough scripture to properly expose the issue of homosexuality.”

    As GP has already alluded to, both the OT and the NT severely condemn any form of Homosexuality, be it man/to/man, or women/to/women.

    Even Obama, like the English Bishop, says that Paul’s discourse in Romans 1: 24-28 is ambiguous, utter NONSENSE, hear God’s Word in Romans 1: 24-28, on the issue of Homosexuals and Lesbians!

    “Therefore God also gave them up to UNCLEANNESS, in the LUSTS of their hearts, to DISHONOR their BODIES among themselves. Who exchanged the TRUTH of God for a LIE, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen,” (v v. 24,25)

    “For this reason God gave them up to VILE PASSIONS. For even the women exchanged the natural use (Heterosexual) for what is AGAINST nature, (Lesbianism). Likewise also men, leaving the natural use of the women (Heterosexual) BURNED in their LUST for one another, men with men (Homosexual) committing in themselves what is SHAMEFUL, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was DUE. And even as they did NOT like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a DEBASED mind, to do those things which are NOT fitting, being filled with ALL unrighteousness, SEXUAL IMMORALITY, wickedness….” (v.v. 26-29a)

    A seared conscience OR being intellectually/Scriptually, dishonest is a terrible place to find one self; as does the Bishop of the C of E, and Obama likewise!

  28. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    @David, The Anglican Church of England, IS* an Apostate church, as a body, an institution, it is in a mess. UP SIDE DOWN!

    Now, there are individuals WITHIN that apostate church, who sincerely love The Lord Jesus Christ, only God knows who they are; as HE is ALWAYS dealing with the individual’s heart.

  29. Zoe Avatar
    Zoe

    @David, Being a theologian, as these C of E Bishops et al are, does NOT automatically qualify them to be Christians, any more than being born in a garage, make one a car!

    Academic theological qualifications are DEAD LETTERS, if the one so qualified, is NOT lead, guided, and taught by HE* The Holy Spirit!

  30. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Zoe | January 6, 2013 at 10:30 PM |

    Is there any truth in the assessment by some biblical psychoanalysts that Paul himself might have been gay? Remember he was imprisoned with a “strange” guy called Silas with the sadomasochistic leanings.

  31. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    MILLER
    Your last posts expresses your ignorance of Roman jails
    What is a biblical psychoanalyst?
    And the NT HAS NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT ORDERS OF PRIESTS.
    THE NT TEACHES THAT ALL TRUE BELIEVERS ARE PRIESTS
    IT TEACHES NOTHING ABOUT HIERARCHIES OR ORDERS

    wHY MUST YOU ALWAYS COME UP WITH NONSENSE THAT HAS NO BASIS IN BIBLE
    THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES THAT SAUL OR SILAS WERE GAY

  32. AWARENESS Avatar
    AWARENESS

    Bajan singer, Rihanna we know was brutally attacked by boyfriend Chris Brown. Chris Brown as of this date is still on probation for the beating, but the two are again a couple. Now, Rihanna, according to journalist, Billy Johnson on 11/06/2009 “said “I’m glad it happened to me. . . . I can help young girls. . . . I will say to any young girl, come out of this”. She, Rihanna is glad that Chris Brown brutally beat her but won’t leave him alone, won’t come out of that relationship. REALLY. Rihanna’s mother [Monica] according to Billy Johnson was frequently beaten by her father, once breaking her nose. This young woman sad to say is mentally off-balanced and a product of her environment [Barbados] a country built on so-called christian values and where Barbadians boast that a church can be found on every street. Interestingly, statistics show that domestic violence involving women and children is quite common there [Barbados] and, well the young senator Kerri Symmonds did physically beat his wife.

    The ex-prime minister and current opposition leader Owen Arthur in Barbados allowed himself a wife and a significant other, same time but now Barbados is built on so-called christian values and where Barbadians boast a church can be found on every street.

  33. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    David | January 6, 2013 at 10:24 PM |
    It is note worthy in your post that the author recognizes that there is a evangelical wing in the Anglican church. When you read the commentaries of Stott and both Ian and William Barclay, this is very clear.
    There is also the non-evangelical apostate wing with the liberal and progressive thinkers

  34. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Georgie Porgie | January 6, 2013 at 11:05 PM |
    “And the NT HAS NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT ORDERS OF PRIESTS.”

    Well if that is so then explain the following verses:

    Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed.- Hebrews 7:16

    And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied, “You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”- Hebrews 7:17

    I will get back to you about the gay thing and Paula when you clear up the above.

  35. anonymous Avatar
    anonymous

    @ Miller

    You’re gay. You are. Please (sil vous plait) confess. It’s not a crime, VRAIMENT.

  36. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ anonymous | January 6, 2013 at 11:22 PM |

    It takes one to know one, honey!

  37. anonymous Avatar
    anonymous

    @ Miller

    We know each other. Yes, we do. I am out of closet. Thought you were out of the closet too. Guest not.

  38. Georgie Porgie Avatar
    Georgie Porgie

    Paul in Hebrews while discussing the priesthood points out that since Jesus was not of the tribe of Levi, but of the tribe of Judah, he could not be a priest like the OT priests. Instead he says Jesus was more like Melchizedek[ also mentioned in the Psalms and Genesis 14] who appeared not to have a beginning or end.
    However, the priesthood of Christ has nothing to the priesthood of believers- which is what we were discussing.

  39. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ anonymous | January 6, 2013 at 11:32 PM |
    Go frig yourself, mate.
    Because I defend the rights of homosexuals that makes me “one of you”?
    Nature has placed me squarely in the heterosexual segment of the sexual pie chart with a lovely blessing to boot. Oil is my thing not grease so “portez votre mère vagin”.

    Take that coming out of the closet talk to balance and Caswell.

  40. anonymous Avatar
    anonymous

    @ Miller

    I apologoze what I speak. A long time you and I, but I not forget.

  41. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Georgie Porgie | January 6, 2013 at 11:43 PM |

    You see GP how you gone and confused people now?
    You say that Jesus is a man descended from the tribe of Judah (through King David). Yet you say he is a god with no alpha or omega.
    Come on GP, is Jesus a man or a god? If he is god then he can’t be a priest.

  42. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ anonymous | January 6, 2013 at 11:58 PM |

    So you believe you know the miller and his foot.
    If that is the case then you can’t eat soup, right?

  43. anonymous Avatar
    anonymous

    @ Miller

    Long time you and I but I not forget. I will telephone you.

  44. Amused Avatar
    Amused

    @Miller. Quel est le problème de x? Pourquoi at-il supposer que parce que vous soutenez les droits des homosexuels que vous êtes homosexuel. C’est peut-être un vœu pieux.

  45. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    Seem like a lot of closet homosexuals (nothing wrong with that) still hiding in the closet.

  46. Well Well Avatar
    Well Well

    THE CHURCH = ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. Don’t get confused and lost with all the other hype.

  47. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ Zoe who asserts that…
    “Academic theological qualifications are DEAD LETTERS, if the one so qualified, is NOT lead, guided, and taught by (HE*) The Holy Spirit!”
    **********************
    Seems like you are coming around to what the bushman has been trying to drive into your head now for YEARS.
    You can go on to add that “Academic theological qualifications are UNNECESSARY if one is lead, guided, and taught by The Holy Spirit!” …..and you CAN quote Bushie on that 😉
    ….there goes your exegesis!

    Zoe again…
    “First, there is NO such ‘office’ OR ‘function’ of ANY Mediatorial/Mediating Priesthood in the NT as found in the Anglican church, it simply does not exist”
    ****************
    TRUE!
    Same applies to the “Trinity”.
    How come you think that THIS exists…?

    @ GP
    Looks like Miller have you by the cajoles….he asked….
    ************
    “You say that Jesus is a man descended from the tribe of Judah (through King David). Yet you say he is a god with no alpha or omega.
    Come on GP, is Jesus a man or a god? If he is god then he can’t be a priest.”
    **************
    LOL….and if he was a priest “after the order of Melchizedek” then he was not God….

    To the BU Family…
    …..for the logical and correct answers to all such questions please feel free to refer to another priest ‘after the order of Melchizedek’…..(Friend of Islandgal; AKA “one of BBE’s boys”….) 🙂 …..Bushie! AKA Bush TEA(cher)
    Ha Ha Ha
    How ya like muh Baffy…?

  48. ac Avatar
    ac

    Bushie youb are barking up the wrong tree. from my bibilcal knoweldge .God is the Alpha ! and the Omega! the begining and the end meaning that GOd can be all things including Jesus

  49. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | January 7, 2013 at 8:53 AM |

    You are strongly advised to stay clear of this topic.
    Your contribution would only make you look like a bigger idiot than you are normally.
    Go back to cussing OSA and the BLP or even the Ax affair. That’s right up your intellectual street. But stay clear from topics of an esoteric nature and even foreign languages including English.
    Now that is being rude to you ac. But it’s the only style that is intellectually effective on you.

  50. Bush Tea Avatar
    Bush Tea

    @ ac
    🙂

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