So?

Of course all religions involve syncresis.

So the pre-Christian custom of decorating trees in the “winter” has infiltrated the celebration of Christ’s birth, and has even infiltrated the tropics where there is no winter, and where evergreen trees are not regarded as highly symbolic of life, because in the tropics green trees are an everyday commonplace.

However to say that we should not have Christmas trees because of what is written in Jeremiah 10: 2 – 5, is like saying we should not not enjoy the wuk-ups of Crop Over because we have NEVER set foot in a sugar cane field.

I am not saying that people should not celebrate Christmas, but I think that they should be aware what they are actually celebrating. Pagan celebration at this time of the year existed long before the birth of Christ. The Christian church adopted the celebration as a way of appeasing the pagans that they were seeking to convert but the pagans refused to give up their merriment, so the church dusted of the pagan celebration and repackaged it as the birth of Christ. Essentially, the church perpetrated a massive fraud on the world. Unfortunately, religious leaders continue the charade of Christmas even though they know better.

Please kindly note that Jeremiah 10: 2 – 5,has nothing to do with decorating Christmas trees.If the text is rightly divided in its context as it should, one would note that this verse is one of many OT scriptures that has to do with idols, or false gods. If one will read Psalm 115, will get a good understanding of this.

Psalm 115
1 Not unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, for thy mercy, and for thy truth’s sake.

2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands.

5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

The early church, and the church which went underground after Constantine’s foolishness certainly did not celebrate Christmas or decorate trees. Instead, the early church is said in Acts 2:42 to do this……… And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

And”no” we are not celebrating the birth of the new sun. Because in teh tropics the sun and its life sustaining warmth never goes away.

We fully understand that many current Christmas celebrations are relics of Northern European pre-Christian festivals.

Otherwise why in the tropics so people buy fake snow?

And bring a green tree inside, when the outside is full of living green trees?

Why the rigmarole about the new birth of the sun, when in the tropics the sun and its warmth NEVER goes away.

Why yule logs? Really does anybody in the tropics burn wood in a fireplace indoors?

We fully understand that many current Christmas celebrations are relics of Northern European pre-Christian festivals.

Simple Simon

I most certainly would not mind being one of your Current men … HA HA HA. I often wondered what it would be like doing nasty things with a women that is of the same mind … HA HA HA

Baffy….behave yourself nuh? RFLMAO

in someway caswell is right even if he misinterpret the chapter as xmas was borne out of paganism connected to the ritual of a lighted and decorated xmas tree which in part is a symbol of idolatry .

But Baffy didn’t I ask you before, “what if I am a gay man?”

@BAFBFP

Be careful, Simple Simon may want you to go out and help fork, plough or weed that acre of greens!!! HA, HA, HA~

Yes David.As celebrated ChriSTmas has pagan origins dating back to CONSTANTINE’S TIME CERCA 313 WITH THE ORIGIN OF THE ROMAN CHURCH.
THE EARLY CHURCH THAT EXISTED PRIOR TO THIS DID NOT CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS

Some church groups in Christendom dont celebrate Christmas.But since most are an off shoot from the Roman church, many do.

I think there is nothing wrong with an annual meditation concerning all the Scriptures that teach the first coming of Christ as some church groups do .My church group which tends to be Christocentric in its worship style, will discuss the first coming of Christ at any time of the year.

.Otherwise as celebrated for most of christendom it is just another pagan festival.

I dont rant and rave about the celebrations anymore. however.

Most readers and contributors to BU would believe that to be religious is to be Christian.
What would they have believed if by accident of birth they had been born in India, or Afghanistan, or Sri Lanka? That to be religious is to be Hindu, Buddist or Muslim.
Christmas trees are a minor detail in just one of the world’s major religions.

Pretty cool offering Sarge

Saturnalia is just one of many winter solstice festivals.
I like the Babylonian Akitu festival, which was a winter / spring festival in ancient Mesopotamia. Marduk who is celebrated in the festival appears as a life-death-rebirth deity, reflecting the festival’s agrarian origin based on the cycle of sowing and harvesting. He is imprisoned in the underworld and rises again on the third day. The festival lasted 12 days. Sounds familiar.
Look also at:
Soyal – the Zuni and the Hopi Indians held on December 21.
Yalda – the Persian winter solstice celebration which is celebrated on or around December 20 or 21 each year. They believed Mithra, the Persian angel of light and truth was born this night.
Mōdraniht (Old English “Night of the Mothers” or “Mothers’-night”) – an event held at what is now Christmas Eve by the Anglo-Saxon Pagans.
Pancha Ganapati – a modern five-day Hindu festival celebrated from December 21 through 25 in honor of Lord Ganesha, Patron of Arts and Guardian of Culture.
Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, or “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun” – celebrated by the Romans on December 25th. It is claimed that the date of for Christmas was selected in order to correspond with this Roman festival.
Yule – a midwinter festival celebrated by the Germanic peoples.Another 12-day festival.
Malkh – a festival of the Vainakh people celebrated on 25 December which was the birthday and the festival of the Sun. During the ceremonies suppliants turned to the east. Christian churches are still aligned to the east.
Clearly the winter solstice is the rock on which a lot of festivals including Christmas, were based. and it is equally clear that many symbols of Christmas were borrowed from other beliefs – trees, yule logs, snow, reindeers, Santa Claus and mistletoe spring to mind.

@caswell the writer of this column…i know you wanted to use the scripture to make your point.I would suggest next time try to used the appropriate text to fit the point you are trying to convey.This one you have taken out of context and at the time this scripture was written for god people through jeremiah about their idol worship.If you would have slanted your column along those lines you would be right on point.So next time research the text and its history and background before using it out of context.

@BAFBFP | December 27, 2012 at 6:19 PM | Very annoying, but I agree with you once again – and you have made me laugh, which is even more annoying.

Zoe must be coming to terms with the realisation that everyone is spiritual and it is all based on love for each other not getting angry about doctrine in books, I’m sure we will see a much happier wiser Zoe in 2013
with his meditation more mellow transformation needs patience and awareness

BAFBFP

You really think that I care how you feel about me? You hold yourself too high in my estimation.

Sent from my iPad

@ Georgie Porgie | December 28, 2012 at 11:51 AM |
“Caswell’s only error in his” simplistic way” in saying “that the writer was referring to a practice that was similar to this Christmas tree thing” was that he tried to apply the text before understanding what the text says and what it means- the first two steps in exegesis.”

Pardon my ignorance and biblical illiteracy but could you please apply the correct step in exegesis to explain to a simple miller the following biblical extracts from the same Old Testament?

“They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man……..Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:7, 17-18)”
“Kill everything that breathes” (from humans and animals)! Deuteronomy 20:16
The miller in his simplistic way might have misquoted or even misinterpreted these commands from your god Yaweh or EL but he sounds rather megalomaniac and a genocidal dictator. Please set the record straight, Apostle GP and tell us what your god Yaweh really meant.

Miller etc quoting Deut ““They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man……..Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (Numbers 31:7, 17-18)” “Kill everything that breathes” (from humans and animals)! Deuteronomy 20:16”

Or kill the men, boys and mothers. Rape, and impregnate the virginal teen and pre-teen girls.

Sounds like war crimes to me or the voice in the head of the young man in Newtown.

GP
“SIR your ignorance and biblical illiteracy is hereby pardoned.
The correct step in exegesis are
1 determine what the text says
2 determine what the text means
3 apply the text”
==
SIR
That is basic Computer Programming Concepts
1 Input
2 Process
3 Output

and Eastern Religious Philosopy/Gods
1 Input : Ganesh (Education)
2 Process : Buddah (Meditation)
3 Output : Kali Amman (Application/Destruction)

Kiki

Look youngster you sayin’ too much now … HA HA HA HA

Here are a few scriptures from a word study that I am currently playing with on the word HIMSELF. These ‘himself” verses listed below tell us why Jesus came the first time. I have just listed the verses. Those who care, can interpret them for themselves.–I hope
Enjoy
WHAT JESUS ACTUALLY DID
• Hebrews 2:14 KJV
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is , the devil;

• 1 Timothy 2:6 KJV
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
• Titus 2:14 KJV
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
• Hebrews 9:14 KJV
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
• Hebrews 9:26 KJV
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
• Philippians 2:7 KJV
But made himself of no reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
• Philippians 2:8 KJV
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
• Colossians 1:20 KJV
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things untohimself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
• Ephesians 5:2 KJV
And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.
• Ephesians 5:25 KJV
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
• Ephesians 5:27 KJV
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
• Galatians 1:4 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
• Ephesians 1:5 KJV
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
• Ephesians 2:15 KJV
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
• Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live ; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

• 2 Corinthians 5:18 KJV
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
• 2 Corinthians 5:19 KJV
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 PETER 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

NOTE friends that the Bible was not written by fishermen only 6 [probably 8] of 27NT books were written by fishermen, and that much of the Bible was written by educated men.

note also that these verses from 1 Corinthians 2 have been quoted by both Zoe and I on BU several times over the last 4 years

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.