Submitted by Yardbroom
Some Church members against same sex marriages

Some time ago I wrote a submission on BU (Barbados Underground) – A Step Too Far Or Fairness And Equality: Same Sex Partner’s Legal Rights asking the question with reference to same sex couples, Is Marriage A Step Too Far?  The subject matter generated much debate.  The BBC picked up the article and it was interesting to read/hear the views of that international audience who were not only divided but  had very trenchant opinions.

I revisit this subject only because in the interval between then and now the situation has completely changed.  In the submission I asked a tentative question, now with the likely change in the Law in England there is a possibility of same sex marriages being permitted in the churches there.

“Some” members of the Church of England – with strong religious views – are against the proposed change in the law and have been vociferous in their opposition.  If you ask how can a decision made in England impact on Barbados?  I simply add the church plays a major part in the lives of many Barbadians and the Anglican Church is a long established Church here.  Although an island Barbados cannot be completely insulated from the wider world, geographic position is no barrier to what we do or how we interact with others and sometimes  that interaction influences our thinking.

A lobby group formed  by MPs bishops and others who are against gay marriages in church have produced a leaflet:

“Keep Marriage Special” in which they assert”:

“If the only basis for marriage is the desire of the parties to get married then there is, according to the logic of this proposal, no reason not to open up marriage to more than just same-sex couples: Polygamy, polyandry and incest would all be permissible”.

This is rather strong stuff and do not believe for one moment this is an ordinary homophobic lobby group.  “The Keep Marriage Special campaign, vice-presidents include the Democratic Unionist MPs Nigel Dodds and Jeffrey Donaldson and Bishop David Samuel, president of the Protestant Reformation Society.  The campaign’s president is Vicount Brentford, of the Church Society.”

However, they have got even more powerful forces against them.  There is the Out 4 Marriage Campaign which the home secretary – Theresa May – is backing on this issue also in that camp is deputy prime minister Nick Clegg.  Prime Minister David Cameron also supports the proposed change in the Law but many conservative MPs are against it.  As if to rebutt the views expressed in the Keep Marriage Special Leaflet.  Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg is quoted as saying.:

“I’ve always been very clear on this issue: love is the same, straight or gay, so the civil institution should be the same too.  All couples should be able to make that commitment to one another, regardless of who they love.”

“A running survey of MPs stated views by the Coalition for Equal Marriage suggests 245 MPs are likely to support legalising gay marriage, with 62 against and 16 neutral.  The views of the remaining 327 MPs are not known.

It is sometimes very difficult to have a reasoned debate on gay issues, opposite opinions are often so entrenched with the belief that reason, religion and normality – whatever that is – is on their side, that they find it difficult to accept another point of view.  Regardless of if the Law is changed in England to allow gay marriages in church or not, you can be sure this issue will not quietly fade away.

There are problems which although difficult that must be confronted if we are to have an equal and just society.  In discussing issues of major change in subjects of this kind we must be conscious of the language we use, for language hardens opinions on both sides thus preventing reasonable debate sometimes personalizing the issue when there is no need to. . . . we are discussing real people.

Acknowledgement: Daniel Boffey, Sunday Observer {London)


  1. @ac | July 5, 2012 at 9:05 AM |. Amen.


  2. @ BAF
    Just to say that I heard back from my really learned friend a couple of days ago. He said that I had been right in my approach. Sorry bro.


  3. @ David

    I just wanted to say that I agree totally with your last remark. It really is not a simple matter – whichever line one takes. Inter-personal relationships are one thing. To ask and expect the State officiously to intervene is another.


  4. @ BAF

    Don’t hesitate to condemn. Jesus did it with the Pharisees – and that’s what we’re really about ourselves, ‘Christian’ or not.


  5. @ BAFBFP
    Stay cool, Bushie has no intention of getting between you and your sheep. Lol You may have misunderstood the post.
    The Bushman could not care less what turns you on….
    Just pointing out what the Big Boss Engineers who conceptualized and initiated the whole “shebang” has designed…. but hell!! , what do THEY know…?

    You just may have a more relevant opinion…..

    @ passing through
    Good name – keep on passing
    Perhaps on your next passage you may wish to espouse the difference between someone who finds themselves sexually attracted to a person of their same sex – and someone who finds themselves (unavoidably) unable to resist a sexual attraction for children; …or for animals…. Or even for their own family….

    These are complex issues. Too complex to be solved with simpleminded emotional gut feelings….


  6. Has anyone noticed that in this post – which is really concerned with what it is to be fully human – there is an almost unheard of sense of agreement? If this were law, or race, or history, or politics there would be a gnashing of teeth and much blood. As it is, the lion lies down with the lamb….so there is hope.


  7. @ BAF

    Are you the little child who will lead us? You have that kind of spontaneity and natural poetic insight – not least in every expletive deleted.


  8. Can anyone guess what Peter Wickham wrote about today?


  9. Don Lemon Comes Out: CNN Anchor Reveals He’s Gay In New Book

    CNN anchor Don Lemon has come out. In a new book, “Transparent,” Lemon talks about his life and his sexuality, and he revealed that he is gay in an interview with the New York Times -Huffington Post,9/72012.

    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Anderson Cooper Out: CNN Anchor Joins Other Openly Gay Cable News Hosts

    Anderson Cooper became one of a small group of openly gay cable news anchors when he came out on Thursday.

    Cooper broke his long silence about his sexuality and love life, and made the public revelation in an email to writer and friend Andrew Sullivan.

    He is now at least the sixth cable news anchor who is openly gay. CNN’s Don Lemon, who came out in his 2011 memoir “Transparent,” was the last host to do so before Cooper. Salon.com’s Steve Kornacki, who also came out last year, is the co-host of MSNBC’s new show “The Cycle.”

    Posted: 07/02/2012 12:34 pm , Huffington Post.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………

    Congressman Barney Frank “Marries” Homosexual Partner

    Notoriously homosexual congressman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) “married” his longtime partner July 7 in a public ceremony officiated by Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, the Associated Press reported. A spokesman for Frank said that the 72-year-old congressman “wed” 42-year-old Jim Ready, described by the AP as a handyman and photographer, at a Boston-area hotel, with some 300 guests in attendance. Among the more high-profile of the guests were Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.).

    Monday, 09 July 2012 22:45 The New American.

    ………………………………………………………………………………………………
    Idaho Senator Larry Craig Resigns Amid Gay Sex Solicitation ScandalThe senator from Idaho who made headlines after being accused of soliciting gay bathroom sex resigned Saturday.

    Sen. Larry Craig, under increasing pressure from the public, critics and fellow Republicans, announced on Saturday that he would be giving up his seat after 25 years in congress.

    “I apologize for what I have caused,” says Craig. “I am deeply sorry.”

    With his wife Suzanne and some of their children at his side, the 62-year-old Craig announced his resignation at a historic Boise train station.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………………..

    Openly gay NY state senator Tom Duane retiring

    State Senator Tom Duane, New
    York state’s highest-ranking gay elected official, who has been
    open about being infected with the virus that causes AIDS, said
    on Monday he is retiring after 14 years in the state
    legislature.

    June 04, 2012|Reuters

    09/01/2007 | CityNews.ca Staff


  10. ALL THE CLOSET HOMOSEXUALS IN AMERICA COMMING OUT

  11. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    Personally, I don’t care what a man does with his backside: that is his business. I use mine for sitting and defecation, that’s good enough for me. That said, I believe that the institution of marriage should be reserved for heterosexual couples.

    The Government apparently shares that view but somehow they believe that the BLP is vulnerable in this regard, and they are planting the idea by innuendo that the BLP will legalise same sex unions. So far two apparently heterosexual ministers have come out attempting to scare the electorate into voting for them.

    I would prefer if the Government concentrate more on delivering on its manifesto promises than on planting the impression that the BLP would inflict harm. So far, they have used the scare tactic of the BLP cutting salaries if elected and now this. Come on gentlemen, grow up! I realise that it would present a more difficult challenge for Steven Lashley because he would have to grow up both literally and figuratively.


  12. @Caswell Franklyn | July 10, 2012 at 1:26 AM | “Personally, I don’t care what a man does with his backside: that is his business. I use mine for sitting and defecation, that’s good enough for me.”

    Then maybe, Caswell, you can explain to me why, in discussing you last week, I heard a body say, “If you want to blow Casewell’s brains out, you got to shoot e in de ass.” Indeed, some were saying that you spoke from your backside. I, of course, tried to defend you a little…..not much, but a little at least.


  13. @Caswell et al,

    Apparently people would rather spend more time discussing issues of little import to a man who needs to feed a family, than important matters like manifesto promises and economic adjustments to provide jobs.,

    Llike the time waster and political grandstanding of the ‘FBI’ report, when all the PM would need to make is one call and it would be on his desk, or a confirmation that it does not exist , if it did not.

    Easily solved but thrown into old world politics, that most voters do not give a damn about anymore.

    More Parliamentarians should listen to MADD’s kaiso tune, neither of them getting a vote from he.


  14. The Church is also a man made construct. Only love and the Almighty can bind souls together, saying a few words in front of a priest in a building cannot do that.
    So, whether the Church accepts ‘marriage’ between same sex, is largely irrelevant”
    SO WHY THE EAGERNESS TO MARRY IN A CHURCH THEN IF IT IS NO BIG THING? OR ARE THEY TRYING TO PROVE A POINT , RUBBING SALT IN THE WOUNDS OF NON-CONFORMISTS LIKE ME SO TO SPEAK.


  15. @Crusoe

    Why can’t we discuss them all?


  16. @balance. I agree with you on the issue of insisting on marriage in a church. So long as the same legal rights accorded heterosexual couples is accorded same-sex couples, “gay” couples ought to be content with that. HOWEVER, I do see the point and I agree that the Church, in refusing to marry same-sex couples, is most assuredly guilty of discrimination if and when same-sex couples in Barbados are accorded the same rights as heterosexual couples. But I do agree with you on the eagerness to marry in a Church.


  17. @Amused

    If the religion is a man made construct built on traditional values what is wrong with the Church proceeding on this basis?


  18. @David. In those terms, none. I agree with ac on the need to remove the discrimination in law between heterosexual and homosexual. I am ambivalent on marriages for same-sex people in church on the basis that committment is something that takes place in the heart and legalising that committment ought to be the same for all, but that is a matter of law.

  19. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ David | July 10, 2012 at 8:07 AM |

    The Church is an Agent of the State when it comes to marriage. It must therefore follow the requirements and dictates promulgated by the State.
    The same way the Church cannot give succuor or haven to a criminal even if he repents of his sins like the mythical thief on the cross next to the legendary crucified Jesus church officials should not discriminate in applying the laws of the land.
    Remember when blacks were not allowed to marry in churches or blacks and whites intermarry? Aren’t ‘same-sex’ couples the same as “other’ couples in the sight of a forgiving and all embracing god who made them all? The same way He now embraces blacks in the church, similar treatment should be meted out to any couple whose love for each other should be worthy of celebration in the house of the Lord as long as the appropriate legal requirements are met and the relevant fees paid over to the church. The Church must stop being so hypocritical and should come to grips with the fact that some of its members, both in the pulpit and in the pew, are homosexual and using the law of averages to the Church’s demographic profile one can come up with a figure of 8% to 10% of any “normal” congregation would be “bent” in that direction.

    Churches, especially the Anglican Church, are under financial strain due to fall off in revenues from the collection plate. Why not tap into this ‘same sex’ marriage market? After all, it’s a business and the BTA can learn a lot and exploit this potentially lucrative niche market in the Travel & Tourism business. We already have a reputation of being the gay capital of the Caribbean. So instead of our neigbours saying:- “if you go down St. James in Barbados don’t bend over”- it would be “Let’s us go to Bim the land of “gay” abandon where all your dreams will come true whether straight or otherwise”.


  20. Why do people want to bless what God will not bless…by extension, what’s next?
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/#/48121998

  21. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ FrenchyBajan | July 10, 2012 at 12:18 PM |

    So why did your infallible god create or allowed to be born these (in your eyes) defective people? Maybe if their “straight” parents had used “frenchies” you would not have to worry about these defective rejects from god’s production line.
    Do you see it as some curse from your god? Or is you god himself fallible?


  22. @FrencyBajan,

    Who are you to say what God will and will not bless??

    Why dont you say it correctly, that ‘in your version of God’ he does not bless certain groups.

    You have no authority to speak on God’s wishes or blessings. That is between each man / woman and God themselves, no man alive has that authority and none ever did.


  23. @ miller….
    Who talked about defective people? Please feel free to express what is in your heart bodly , don’t use my comment as an excuse. i was talking about their “union” not being blessed.
    @Crusoe
    You want God’s blessings do it by the Book!!! The will of God is in the Book !!!!

  24. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ FrenchyBajan | July 10, 2012 at 1:41 PM |
    “Who talked about defective people?”

    How then do you see these people? Do you see them as normal human beings? Or do you see them as engaging in an activity (loving each other) as an abomination in the sight of you Leviticus god?
    Would your god still give his blessings to a man who wants to marry 700 wives and still keep 300 concubines just for variety being the spice of life. This seems like a practical solution since that same book of Leviticus forbids going close to a woman when she is having her unclean time of the month. After all there, is a precedent set in you Book where your god blessed such a man so much as to make him the wisest man that ever lived.


  25. @Crusoe & Miller. Agree with both.


  26. Bushie rises to support FrenchieBajan.
    @ miller
    Disappointed at your weak logic re the church. It may have allowed itself to become a de facto agent of the state, but it professes to be an agent of a much higher calling.

    Surely it is an admission of internal guilt and revulsion that drives homosexuals to so BADLY want and need church and societal recognition.
    JUST DO IT AND KEEP QUIET NUH!!! Nobody else cares!!!

    Equating this situation with the racial one is really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Blacks do not ask to be called “white” or be painted white….only to be treated equally.
    No one wants to discriminate against gays, but why the hell should we desecrate an institution such a marriage, or redefine basic tenants of established human institutions just to appease the guilt of sexual deviants?
    …who would be next? Sheep and fowl f****ers? (feathers 🙂 )

    @ Crusoe
    Who is FrenchieBajan to say that God will not bless such a union…?
    …you feel FrenchieB can’t read or what…?

    ….well Bushie also says that…. And says it because he has personal contacts with BBE..and the authority too….. Lol


  27. @miller….
    Do tell what “normal people” means…
    If God says homosexuality is an abomination then who am I to say that it is not? It is wrong in so many ways… In its essence, isn’t the rejection of the other (gender)? So why complaining morning, day and night that people are rejecting it? Stop playing the victim card! I am not for the bashing, jokes, beating etc of homosexuals but they must hear that ain’t good for them or for society.
    King Solomon and the rest were warned in the Law about many wives:
    “The king must not take numerous wives so that his heart doesn’t go astray…”Deuteronomy 17:17
    If you would take the time to read and study the Holy Book you would learn about the results of his disobedience to this directive.


  28. To Miller:
    Why this insistence about being married in a church. I thought the entire idea was to be allowed the act of marriage through the courts or some other entity that would “do” this same sex marriage thing. I am not getting into this fray; I am am just asking a question. I know you know my position already on this matter.


  29. @Bushie. With great respect, I have to agree with Miller and Crusoe on this one. BUT at the same time, I am not really comfortable with the idea of marriages of this nature taking place in a church, but fairness forces me to recognise that it is discriminatory if this cannot happen in a church. But that is just my view and I would rather be uncomfortable if it avoids discrimination.

    By the way, I have no idea what BBE is. The best I can come up with is the Barbados B*llers Establishment, but I am sure that is not it.

  30. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Bush Tea | July 10, 2012 at 3:05 PM |

    Bushman, history will confirm that the established Church has always been an agent or arm of the State. Or do you wish to contend to the contrary which I would not advise.
    The Church must first admit and deal with its demons (paedophilia is a much greater “wrong” against another human being than same-sex love and marriage) before it can claim to be an agent of a much higher calling. Spirituality, my friend, is the path to that much higher calling, not religion.
    Selling indulgences and insurance policies to heaven will not cut it in the sight of the Light. Only children of the Light will be able to see the face of God.
    Let me end with a motto thought up by me and not by some religious writer:
    “Those who seek Salvation should follow the path that leads to the Light!’
    Pick sense not logic from that.

    The Church MUST NOT discriminate against any group of humanity whether on race, ethnicity, religious persuasion, gender, abilities or disabilities or socio-economic status and, finally, sexual orientation. Then and only then would it be worthy of the title “Church of Christ” and not of Rome or its successors.


  31. @Miller. Very well put.

  32. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ Amused | July 10, 2012 at 3:43 PM |

    Thank you, Sir!


  33. @Frenchy and The Bushman (sounds like a movie title
    ”@ Crusoe
    Who is FrenchieBajan to say that God will not bless such a union…?
    …you feel FrenchieB can’t read or what…? ….well Bushie also says that…. And says it because he has personal contacts with BBE..and the authority too….. Lol”
    ————–

    Frenchy says it is in ‘the Book’ . Which book? Grimms Fairy Tales, In The Castle of My Skin, Mr.Biswas,…which one? God did not write any book for us. Man writes books.

    So what if he can read, he gotta interpret and understand, that is another issue. Not thinking that he cannot mind you, but really, following like sheep?
    I have no problem with that per se, it is his right and CHOICE, but it stops at that, he has no right nor authority to put that nonsense on others.

    Now Bushiie, you say YOU have direct contact to BBE and the authority?

    Well, you must know. But, as you are another one of mankind, forgive me for not fllowing bliindly.

    Amused asked who BBE is I know you had choices such as:

    -best business enterprises, big and buxom enchanteuses, bottlers of beer and emporiums, but you settled on Big Boss Engineers.

    Is one of them Bizzy? On account of, if you have communication regular, one must be available still for you to talk to, unless you use ouija board and so on and I aint going there, I running a country mile from that stuff.

    Cheers Boss!


  34. @Miller,

    Just doan be following de light that Bushman does be burning pun a Sat’dy night tuh communnicate with de BBE’s.

    Dat is a diff’rent kinda light. Got duppies an ting!


  35. No no … BBE stands for Big Boxie Ewes …. HA HA HA


  36. Oh loss. @BAF I was not worried until I read that, but now I am. I am quite concerned now. 😉


  37. @ Crusoe

    We are now in a time of the inversion of values, reverse of morals so I am not surprised about all the ridicule and insults etc against the Holy Book. Right is wrong and wrong is right!
    The Word is there for WHOSOEVER will believe….

    Sur ce, bonne soiree!

    Btw, I am a female!


  38. @Frenchy, ‘Insults aganst the Holy Book’.

    No. Do NOT fall back on that ‘attacking the Holy Book’ defense and accuse me of that which I did NOT do. I did not insult any book, show me above where I did?

    All I said was that all books are written by men. And asked which one you were referring to, how is that an insult?

    And again, no book is a directly from God to us. ALL books are wrritten by mankind. Statment of fact not opinion and no insult, mere fact.


  39. LOL @All of wunna BU Comedians….

    By now wanna fellows must know that Bushie is not easily distracted by strawmen …or even big boxied sheep…. So these digressions into levity will hardly do the intended job….

    Miller, you are correct that the so called church has always been a bastion of hypocracy….but you mean that one of the few things which they managed to get right should suffer a similar fate? ….AND TO WHAT END?

    Apart from Amused’s feeble attempt to argue “discrimination’ none of you have answered the much repeated question….
    ..since your clients are legally and otherwise free to live as they wish, what is this obsession with marriage in a church? Draw up a legal contract….and live wanna lives in peace and QUIET nuh!!!?

    Can’t you see the problem?…certain bloggers unnamed are just waiting for the precedent to be established before looking to have the right to marry a sheep, ….fowls, …..goats …..
    ….and why not?

    As to BBE ( The BIG BOSS ENGINEERS ) who would have been responsible for the conception, design, and creation of our world, all of wunna going soon come to know of them REAL good….
    …wunna going be singing a completely different tune at that time Bushie is willing to bet….


  40. @ Amused
    BTW, arguing that the Church discriminates – would be akin to arguing that a lawyer is biased in favour of his client…..
    It is in fact the VERY ROLE of the church to discriminate between those who are “following the light” (to use miller’s terminology!) …and those who prefer to stay in the the dark – where they can enjoy their deeds (including those deeds involving ewes)

    The very genesis of the real Church is “discrimination”, and that explains exactly why marriage should not be desecrated by this abomination which is moot.

    ….that said, Bushie fully expects that the bogus institutions which currently call themselves “church” will very quickly endorse Amused and miller ‘s arguments (especially the market share theory) and be happily “marrying” gays, perverts, sheep and even priests…..soon..

    After all…..These are the days when ‘the first shall be last and the last shall be first….’

  41. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ FrenchyBajan | July 10, 2012 at 5:12 PM |
    “Btw, I am a female!”

    One suspected all along! Since you are so dogmatic about the unswerving sanctity of the “Book” then here are some sermons you should definitely adhere to without question or debate:

    As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. (NIV, 1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

    A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (NIV, 1 Timothy 2:11-12)

    Comprenez!

    Maintenant, bon nuit et couchez après la petite mort!


  42. ALL THE CLOSET HOMOSEXUALS IN AMERICA COMMING OUT

    well what’s wrong with that it is not like these people should lived out the rest of their lives quarantine,good christ these are human beings some of whom have served their countries well and have fought and died in wars to guarantee our civil rights take note at the numbers who are in the military or other areas of government that require them to be servants of the people by putting others first leaving family and friends to be in the line of fire where some of us dare not to be and to all those who are sitting comfortably in your air conditioned homes and living a lavish lifestyle i asked how many of you in blogland have fought a war or be on the battlefield for country i bet i t would be far and few in between is it asking too much of ourselves after their sacrificing for others to give back so little to them in return when all they are asking is for some of the rights that some of them fought and died for think for a moment who these people are and not be blinded by bigotry and prejudice for when it comes right down to it we are all god’s people .

  43. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ ac | July 10, 2012 at 5:57 PM |

    I am with you on this one! Surprised! (LOL!!)


  44. @ ac
    …after your diatribe perhaps the bible has a point after all in those verses quoted by miller above 🙂
    …how are you sweetheart…? lol


  45. @miller…on the above mentionned scriptures
    I have no problem with this since I understand that the context is as follows: women and men use to sit in two separate groups in the meeting place, with no microphone in use some women would miss what was said and would ask loudly to their husband to repeat or explain etc… thus Paul’s advise! Have you ever heard of Philipp the evangelist and his 4 daughters? They were preachers ~~ It is in the Bible you know.


  46. @miller…
    “couchez après la petite mort!” kindly translate.


  47. @bush Tea

    The role of the church is to bring people out of darkness into the light and it starts with one basic rule to “do unto others as they should do unto you.” the other rules and statures are principles and guidlines which the church regrettably have not been able to discern and instilled in their followers by way of practice what we are witnessing now is the failing and an out pour of negative behaviour which is part and parcel of the church’s teaching regrettably and unfortunately so.the very rules of the church there main cornerstone those of LOVE! PATIENCE ! UNDERSTANDING and FORGIVENESS ! are the first ones that going flying out the window in the believers haste to condemn and ridicule, What a blemish!


  48. @ ac
    …after your diatribe perhaps the bible has a point after all in those verses quoted by miller above
    …how are you sweetheart…? lol

    @bush tea

    Sound like you feeling guilty ! don’t worry it’s all good! cause like you say “WE all god’s children’ maybe not perfect but we all have our short comings ;so i say unto You LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR as you shall LOVE YOURSELF. and it not what she/ he does in the bedroom but how One treats each other . when one leaves the bedroom one should enter a world of PEACE as GOD is the author of PEACE while MAN is the AUTHOR OF CONFUSION


  49. @Bush Tea,

    Yes, w will all pass to the next level of the soul’s existence, that does not mean we do not believe in the Almighty and the eternity of the soul, indeed, reincarnation (in whatever form) of the soul is now only being grasped by the mainstream Church, when others have embraced this concept for centuries, until now, the position of the mainstream Church was that people would go to heaven or hell…whatever.

    So, soul eternity has long been out of the ‘ambit’ of the Chruch and has been embraced long before the existence of these ‘religions’.

    And why should we be worried about soul eternity, it is the natural translation of our soul’s. The only negative factor being that we will miss our contact with loved ones we leave on this Earth, till and if we meet again, nothing else.


  50. Bush Tea

    So I like sheep, with big boxies to boot. What is it to you Padre…? If of course you do not have wool and are not predisposed to bleating at the moon well then you have absolutely nothing to worry about, now do you ..?!

    Jesus H Ch#st how difficult can it be to understand the meaning of the phrase to “Live and let live ” …?

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