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THE UWI Financing DEBATE

Submitted by Ellis Chase There has been something of a debate on the funding of higher education in Barbados recently. As is typical, and strange for a well educated country, clear facts and hard information have largely been absent, and persons seem to be taking political and ideological positions. The Nation newspaper recently ran an…

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Submitted by Ellis Chase

University of the West indies, Cave Hill

There has been something of a debate on the funding of higher education in Barbados recently. As is typical, and strange for a well educated country, clear facts and hard information have largely been absent, and persons seem to be taking political and ideological positions. The Nation newspaper recently ran an article about UWI finances after a public pronouncement by the Finance and Economic Affairs Minister. The article prompted me to seek out some hard information on UWI finances, and I was shocked at how hard it was to get some. Finally, after some wheeling and dealing I got my hands on the UWI, Cave Hill audited financials for the period 1999 to 2009.

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188 responses to “THE UWI Financing DEBATE”

  1. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @uneducated
    In your response which was directed at Caswell, you seem to be dismissive of the practice that the government is “allowing UWI to accept persons with lower second class honours to pursue masters studies.” While you may now challenge me, I will tell you that it is not unusual for persons with a lower second degree to get into a Master’s programme at the UWI, nor other major institutions. If truth be told, most master’s programmes require strong letters of reference, statement of study, and other supporting rationale. Hence, what you are suggesting not only appears unfairly critical, it is inaccurate. Quite naturally, the class of degree is likely to strengthen one’s application but it is not always the deciding factor.
    In any event, it would be useful if you could provide some hard data, and means for overcoming the current problems, rather than simply flog the UWI for doing what all progressive societies do; that is, educate their people.

  2. David Avatar
    David

    @George

    Surprise you would be responsible for such a dogmatic statement.

    Nobody is taking issue with educating citizens, the model used to finance UWI is being critiqued in the context of the harsh economic times.

  3. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ uneducated

    “but now any nincompoop can get accept the govt will pay for their education at Masters level.”

    Your statement is not true. There are specific Master’s degrees at UWI, as with any university in any other country, that the tuition costs are subsidised by the government. Most of the graduate level degrees are self-financed with the exception of those degrees that are funded by the University Grants Committee [UGC]. Under the UGC fund scheme, the respective governments of persons who are citizens of Barbados, Jamaica, or Trinidad & Tobago, may undertake to sponsor all or part of the programme fees. Those persons who do not receive sponsorship will be responsible for full payment. For example, out of 28 Master’s degree programs offered by the Faculty of Social Sciences, only three are UGC funded.

    Additionally, a number of non-governmental organisations, financial institutions, social clubs, professional associations, and business organisations, have made scholarships available to potential students to pursue their undergraduate degrees. For example, BARP offers a scholarship to persons pursuing studies in the area of gerontology.

  4. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @David.

    There is absolutely nothing dogmatic about what I said. I saw a very erroneous statement and I suggested that the individual not to speak in so emphatic terms when their statements are incorrect. I see nothing dogmatic. What I do know is that if we have to find innovative means for funding education, health, and other social programmes, we should and quickly. I have benefited from the system, and I refuse to resign myself by saying that too many persons have access to higher education. Perhaps the opposite is true. We have to find means that at least a majority are likely to agree, but we should never deny the masses of this country the opportunity to better themselves. That is the ground that I stand on. More and more I see the trend of knocking the UWI, education in general, and very few realistic alternatives offered. Nothing dogmatic or idealistic about that. But, over to you David.

  5. David Avatar
    David

    @George

    “In any event, it would be useful if you could provide some hard data, and means for overcoming the current problems, rather than simply flog the UWI for doing what all progressive societies do; that is, educate their people.”

    This is the part of the statement referenced.

  6. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    Okay David. I accept your opinion although I do not see it as being dogmatic. I note there is a challenge there to get the facts. Moreover, the individual is working with “uneducated” and I can only suppose that too is quite the opposite. Anyway, cheers.

  7. Caswell Franklyn Avatar
    Caswell Franklyn

    George
    Read my comment that was posted at 9:43 p.m. and give me your opinion on the issue of a Minister lying to the country.

  8. enuff Avatar
    enuff

    @millertheanunnaki

    “No political will to make harsh but necessary decisions!”

    One would think the government would be glad for opportunities to cut via attrition, yet only last week I saw a vacancy for a Clerk/Typist at a statutory board. As I asked before, who relies on a Typist in 2011? Moreover, Minister Sinckler spoke about 40 new jobs at the FSC.

  9. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    I guess some of you don’t bother to read or listen to International news.

  10. bajeabroad Avatar
    bajeabroad

    @ Enuff

    This is exactly what I mean about sitting on our assess waiting for someone else to tell us what to do. Your very comparison to the USA promotes the idea that because the big countries aint doing it then maybe we can’t. That is the attitude that keeps us in this malaise. The Jamaica athletic program didnt sit around and wait for the USA with their Cornells and MITs to establish a successful track programme and then copy it! Steupse, That is our problem, we have educated people but we just DONT have the confidence to chart our own path. “Educated asses we are! ” SERIOUS confidence and inferiority issues. We ALWAYS waiting on the others to drop the manna from heaven for us. The West Indies team of a decade ago didn’t sit and wait for reports to come from the Australian Cricket Academy to know how to kick cricket ass! Why we always have to wait and see, before we try a thing! …..ITS BECAUSE OF HOW WE ARE EDUCATED!!! AND SOCIALISED!!!

    The USA is a POOR example of executing a national strategy. Politics has become to polarising there and Pres BO is essentially a lame duck. In case you ain’t notice…..that country in serious decline!!! The titanic took a while to sink….but as big as it was, it still sink!!

  11. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ BAFBFP | November 25, 2011 at 6:33 PM |
    “Barbados Investment and Development Corp. along with Invest Barbados as separate entities even the Tourism Investment offshoot, seriously all just excuses to find jobs for the product of a mis-directed education scheme.”

    Man, you are firing on all cylinders when it come comes to overlap and duplication of mandates and functions. Imagine the overseas offices of the Foreign Service being manned by career bureaucrats who don’t have the slightest clue about marketing and selling goods and services.
    But poor Lemmie, he ain’t got a clue about the parasitic activity of the non-productive excesses of the central government and their dependent children called statutory corporations.

    But you should concede that the government will need a central revenue authority but not necessarily a separate Inland Revenue department.

  12. Colonel Buggy Avatar
    Colonel Buggy

    I was always under the impression that UWI, funded by taxpayers money is a “brain resource” which this country’s leaders are able to tap into when a crisis arises or is looming. Are we still engaging “experts” from over and away to advise us ? We are getting free advice,I hope, from former Central Bank Governors. What contributions are the Hill making ?

  13. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @Caswell

    Yes, I do believe that you correctly pointed out an inconsistency. I also note your reference to the Westminster-styled politics. However, Barbados does not have a political culture of Minister’s resigning for presenting what may be interpreted as misleading or otherwise false information to the public. Contrarily, it is the Prime Minister who has usually acted in comparable situations. In the current environment, and with PM Stuart’s position among his colleagues at best tenuous, Sinckler may have become quite untouchable.

  14. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @George

    I think you seem to misunderstood what I meant to say, but as you would appreciate, i am not a very bright person so perhaps i rambled in trying to put over my thoughts, but you can forgive me for my transgressions.

    I meant to say, that previously, the gov would provide scholarships for persons with upper 2 and in rear case, provide sponsorship for persons with lower 2 and it had to be demonstrated that the area is one of need. Now every body that hopping into to uwi to do masters the govt footing the bill. That has placed a further drian on our resources. i am quite aware that overseas universities accept our students with lower 2 to pursue masters. In fact i know persons with bare pass accepted to do the masters in cultural studies at uwi and the govt foot the bill.
    We must be prepared to pay some of our education cost, the previous policy of supporting masters students should re-introduced.

  15. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @art
    Name them.

    @george

    I benefitted from free tertiary education. We CANNOT AFFORD TO CONTINUE FUNDING POST GRADAUATE EDUCATION. PEOPLE SHOULD PAY SOME OF THE COST. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I AM IN SUPPORT OF THE GOVT FOOTING THE BILL FOR THE UNDERGRADUATE FOR NOT THE MASTERS UNLESS THERE IS A CRITCAL NEED AND THE PERSON SHOULD BE DONDED..

  16. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Miller

    And you see what Enuff say ..? That Minister Sinckler spoke about 40 new jobs at the FSC. At least Estwick shot down,no, I meant shut down, one “Executive Chairman”

  17. David Avatar
    David

    @BAFBFP

    The BWA has advertised several jobs in recent weeks so what is your point again? Attrition and early retirement are not options.

  18. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @Uneducated
    Again you are dead wrong. Indeed, the set up of many of the masters’ programmes are funded by the students or some agency and these are more or less self-paying. Your point is way off base.
    Moreover, what you typed in bold sums it up; we need to find ways and means for persons to have access. The purpose of a masters or post graduate degree does not serve the same purpose as an undergraduate degree. Indeed, the postgraduate degree is oriented to specialist areas. You also said that most scholarships were granted on the basis of an upper second; is that so?

  19. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @George

    Would you consider that masters in poject management as a specialist area and why cant we implement successful projects, Would you consider the masters in culturral studies a specialty etc. When I was a student at UWI to get funding for a masters you had to get upper 2 as we called it then. As I said before, now any ninconpoop applying for masters and the govt is paying. In fact a family of mine got upper 2 and was offered a scholarship to do her masters which was evntually upgraded to phd and she advised me that it is an are identified as a need.

    When we have to look at the funding of education, we get emotive. I am quite aware how education for the porr was funded through the Mico Grant(hope I got the name correctly as i have not read about it for years) . We have to control cost, it cannot continue. Interesting enough, parents are willing to pay for their kids to do masters overseas, but wont want to pay for similar masters. I know that it a master and undergraduat in some cases do not serve the same purpose, but with a post graduate the potential for increased earnings is there and that is why they should be required to fund some of the cost of their masters if not all. They should be given a loan. By the way i have now concluded uwi has become an academic factory, turning out inferior produtcs in a lot of cases..

    The welfare nature cant continue. Britain had to look at funding education and we have to look at it too. Also, the govt should institute a cap on the numbers of studensts it will fund in any year. The concept of one gradaute has increased the cost for govt and where are we going to find the money to continue paying this rising cost? It would have to come from increased taxation and I dont want to pay increase taxes.

  20. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ uneducated | November 26, 2011 at 7:13 AM |
    “The welfare nature cant continue. Britain had to look at funding education and we have to look at it too.”

    Not only education but a range of other social services! The civil service- both at local and central government levels- is also being cut back to financially manageable levels.
    Now how do you view the PM’s intractable and totally impractical position of making tertiary education a “sacred cow” even beyond the scalpels of the IMF? Or should we be so “uneducated” as to fall for the propaganda and electioneering gassing off as in the case of CBC. Now here is a perfect entity to privatize as a way of showing that the Stuart Administration is doing something to restructure the economy without breaching its social contract with the disadvantaged! But what we get is a totally unsustainable and untenable position being taken up. There is certainly no hope for this country when we have persons in the form of Mr. “Physical Deficit” making pronouncements to justify keeping CBC as a state entity in these harsh economic times.

  21. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Anybody ever seriously looked at the shape of Kerry Simmons head?

    @ David

    The BWA at least collects revenue ..!

    @ Miller

    CBC if privatized, would only become another foreign exchange drain as Vic Fernands and friends binge on the importation of the latest programs from the US in order to attract local advertising …!

  22. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    uneducated

    Just slash the salaries and perks (including money for foreign travel) of the academic staff of UWI starting at the level of the Principal. They can all use a hair cut.

  23. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    George C. Brathwaite

    Wah you gettin’ this PhD in though … something that gun help move Barbados from a tourist destination designation to industrial power?

  24. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @BAFBFP

    What does that have to do with your individual input? Maybe you could become the main strategist for whichever government is leading to the new Barbados political economy.

  25. JUST ASKING Avatar
    JUST ASKING

    DO you know that we are not Britain or the United States ?
    DO you know that or not ?
    WHY do we sseek to bullshit people with a comparison between Barbados and Britain ???
    DO you know that Britain owes us reparations and that because of our unique experience -colonial- They are duty bound to take care of us??
    DO you know that because of what was done to Black people , somebody MUST take care of Black people in this region and that somebody gotta pay aaaa pay aaaa ???

  26. George C. Brathwaite Avatar
    George C. Brathwaite

    @uneducated

    I have been teaching in the UK system over the past 3 years or so at the undergraduate and graduate level. If truth be told, our average undergraduate students are equally or better prepared than those of a similar level in the UK. Learn to cherish what you have and improve it, rather than ridicule without the requisite knowledge.

  27. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ BAFBFP | November 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM |

    Agree!

    Forex will be scarce and rationing will lead to underground racketeering and forex smuggling.
    If you can’t sell a starving big guts gelded horse that is haemorrhaging forex from its propaganda nostrils to its culturally deficient waste back hole to a local farmer growing local cultural fodder then put it down in a humane fashion. Be careful though! There is a loud mouth boy peeping through the stables window from an upper chamber of the big white legacy house and although he has a speech deficiency he is still physically able to run to the Big Boss to have you reported to the animal rights activists for cruelty to the dlptv muppets.

  28. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ JUST ASKING | November 26, 2011 at 9:44 AM |
    “DO you know that because of what was done to Black people , somebody MUST take care of Black people in this region and that somebody gotta pay aaaa pay aaaa ???”

    Very good issue you have inadvertently raised here! But this matter is riddle with controversy.

    In the case of Barbados it will have to be the British. No other European nation colonised and exploited us.
    But who will pay and in what fashion? Will it be in the form of money? Britian is broke so forget about that! The foreign aid budget is t o buy friends and corrupt third world officials to facilitate access to their resources and markets. Not for geopolitically insignificant places like proud and pompous Barbados who take pride in aping the English but fail to be serious in governance by making a monkey mess of law enforcement. Even if money was proffered but with the condition that buggery between consenting adults be decriminalised do you think bajan pride would be swallowed with a floury volte face not turned to the donors but with an outstretched hand holding a calabash for the cash even if a Chinese junk seller is peddling up the same slave trail?

    But since Britain is broke and Bajans have no intention of being bonded with ties to “de-buggery” should we not take a direct refugee return trip over the Atlantic to the land of our brothers in blood, sweat and anti-buggery ties and get some reparations from the Ghanaian Gold Coast. Now that the black human gold has now – by a stroke of alchemist luck- turned to black oil gold that unwitting conspirator in the trade should be asked to foot a percentage of the reparations bill.
    Should we start negotiations, first with the Brits since they carry the greater guilt and more vulnerable now that Cameron has exposed his unprotected backside by doing a moon?

  29. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @George

    I have taught a post graduate course and the intellectual level of some of the persons coming out of our UWI is not what it used to be. The semester system has produced some robot thinkers and I have no apoligies to make. I see it on a daily basis.

    I will continue to praise my uwi when it needs to be praised. I would like to see it making a meaningful impact on our lives, especially in the area of tropical medicine and the sciences.

    I am very proud of uwi been a doublle graduate, but i have concerns and will express them even if it offends people like you. in my days at uwi were were taught to reason and think, it would appear that learning is by rope.

  30. millertheanunnaki Avatar
    millertheanunnaki

    @ uneducated | November 26, 2011 at 11:28 AM |
    “in my days at uwi we were taught to reason and think, it would appear that learning is by rope.”

    You had to be there in the70’s or very early 80’s when the intellectual spirit of radicalism and inquiry was very high.
    Keep it up! You have been now rechristened Mr.” Re-educated”!
    Don’t you go suffering from dementia, now you hear?

  31. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    Time was when “Free” University Education was a “hand up” now it seems to be a “handout”. We couldn’t afford to waste the “Free” Secondary Education that Bajans in the decades starting in the 60’s enjoyed. I don’t think that anyone has realized that the country has suffered from a “Brain Drain” as many promising students left to pursue studies elsewhere and never returned.

    However in providing the means for Bajans to be educated in their homeland, successive Gov’t have been forced to foot an ever increasing bill for this service. I don’t blame those in the University Administration for expanding the role of the University or for adding an increasing array of products to their line up (after all what’s the use of being in control if you cant leave a legacy).

    Has Gov’t ever provided any input into the direction that the University should be heading? Has Gov’t ever said to UWI we need students to be trained in specialty A or B? Or did the University go on its merry way and send the bill to the Gov’t?

    I do believe in some subsidy for UWI but the reality from 1970 to 1980 to 1990 is different from the reality of today, so when the Principal grumbles about the Gov’t not meeting its commitment to funding all I can say is “Ivory Tower” meet Joe Taxpayer”. Bajans need to be told what this “Free” University Education is costing the country and if the citizens are willing to pay for it then case closed.

    Until then it’s a case of everybody wants to milk the cow but no one wants to feed it.

  32. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    George C. Brathwaite

    Man George come to shite home and stop wasting foreign exchange do …

  33. enuff Avatar
    enuff

    @ Bajeabroad
    Comparing athletics and an alternative energy industry is a stretch. The production of electricity via alternative means is not cheap; it only becomes attractive when the price of oil balloons. Its use has traditionally be based on environmental rather than economic or ‘national security’ concerns as is the case now.
    By the way alternative energy production also lags behind in the UK, Europe, Asia and South America too. Though I do agree that the industry ought to be expanded in Barbados, the issue is not simply about will or independent thought.

  34. David Avatar
    David

    @enff

    You are aware that well run companies invest in back up power generation even if it adds cost to the P&L right?

    It is called contingency planning.

  35. Sargeant Avatar
    Sargeant

    @BAFBFP

    Since the issue of Foreign Exchange is near and dear to your heart, what do you think of the following from Owen Arthur?

    I know it was said over a year ago but he was PM for 14 years and controlled the Financial levers of the country.

    http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/foreign-exchange-controls-must-go/

  36. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Sargeant

    Foreign Exchange SHOULD be near and dare to ALL of us. I sweat like shite to earn it. I have earned more FX for this blasted place than all of the individuals in Cabinet (minus Inniss) and they spend it like it grows on trees. If one in every ten Barbadians saw it as their duty to earn (net) foreign exchange we would be sitting pretty, and if nine in every ten Barbadians saw it as their duty to not have foreign exchange spent on behalf of their consumption patterns we would truly be leaders in this world. How dare you trivialize this …

    As for Arthur and his “Political Class” (a phrase that was coined by him) dropping foreign ex controls is just another way to sneak money out of the country. This class of individual has long since given up on small islands and their peoples … did you not know this?

    (please click on the BAFBFP name to go to the web site where I tekkin’ on some foolish White people …)

  37. enuff Avatar
    enuff

    @ David
    Operative word being backup. Why not sole or key?

  38. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    BAFBFP wrote “As for Arthur and his “Political Class” (a phrase that was coined by him) ”

    I thought the phrase was “coined” by Mia Mottley.

    Correct me if I am wrong please.

  39. Hants Avatar
    Hants

    Education in Barbados should remain free. Education is the foundation on which you build a nation that has no natural resources.

    We had to pay for my youngest child’s 4 years at U of T.

    I went to Kolij and continued gine college an took university courses from de time I land in Canada to build my foundation.

    In Canada you could combine school and work easily but that is not easy in Barbados.
    Hand up or hand out, Barbados benefits from its educated work force.

  40. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ uneducated

    If you meant the three programs in the faculty of social sciences, they are MSc Financial & Business Economics, MSc Project Management & Evaluation and MPhil/PhD Management Studies.
    If you are indeed a graduate of UWI, you would know that this information is available in the student’s handbook.

  41. Ping Pong Avatar
    Ping Pong

    Uneducated, some learn by ROTE not, as you have written, by “rope”.

  42. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @art

    dont forget i am a dunce so i cant read well and the eyes are failing me. Smart pants.

  43. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @Sarg

    Nice points.

  44. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @art

    you are in no position to know what i mean go do some research on all and come back.

  45. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    The case for providing some commodities such as medical services and education free of cost rests partly on a divergence between social cost and private costs, partly on compassion, and partly on more subtle welfare arguments. Charging a price that covers cost of production would deny medical and educational services to many. If all children are better educated, not only do they and their parents benefit, the entire society would benefit from any increase in input that results from an increase in their labour productivity.

    We have been examining the issue of the disbursement of public funds, especially as it relates to education, emotively rather than rationally. First of all, it would be necessary to clarify what are the social responsibilities that the island has to deliver, as well as identify what resources should be ensured for establishing and operating economic but efficient public finances and public administration. Barbados can keep up with the developed states only when its public administration and its public financial management become competitive in its organisational system, working methods, legal regulations and personnel too.

    Beyond the balance issues, nowadays questions related to transparency and accountability concerning the utilisation of public funds, as well as the strengthening of the fight against corruption has gone increasingly into the foreground. Transparency stands for the unequivocal definition of how should resources be utilised and in reality how they were utilised. Now – when the budgetary deficit is insupportably high – it would be necessary to change the root cause primarily in the interest of the establishment of the new balance.

  46. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @miller
    as we aged we are likely to suffer from memory loss, so dont bother if i have started now yous will come at some point and how about that Mr. bright spark and know all…

  47. Artaxerxes Avatar
    Artaxerxes

    @ uneducated
    “you are in no position to know what i mean go do some research on all and come back.”

    My friend you are absolutely correct. Yet you still continue to mislead the public.

  48. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @PING Pong

    it does not change the substnce of what i said as you know what i mean. so add something of substance to the discourse.

  49. uneducated Avatar
    uneducated

    @Art

    check out the masters in cultural studies as a pointer.

  50. BAFBFP Avatar
    BAFBFP

    Hants

    Sorry friend, this time you come in second.

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