@Trained Economist

Are you really dealing with it .one thing you seem to have forgotten that the message is not only coming from Mr, Boos but the public at large and it is “real” and not “rubbish” and those in power must be held accountable before they go on a spending spree withthe public s money . BTW who gave You and others that Right!

The National Insurance Board is basically holding our money in trust. Normally trustees are not allow to speculate/gamble with the money that they are holding on behalf of their principals. When money is invested in highly speculative ventures the return, if there is one, might be substantial. However, in the event of a failure the sum invested could be lost. That is why trustees are forbidden from gambling with other people’s money. They are required to place money in safe investments: the return might not be large but you are guaranteed a return.

This Four Seasons project has no track record that would justify placing one cent of the NIS funds in that venture. If the NIS fund were a private pension plan the Financial Services Commission would not allow this type of gambling with the fund.

Sargeant.

Ford never received a government bailout. the government bailed out GM not social security. The American people would had a fit if social security (NIS) was being used to bail out gm. If the government of Barbados want to foot the cash into 4S so be it but leave the nis out of it. It would be quite easy issue some bonds and have nis buy the government guaranteed debt. Can the 4S bring lot of cash yes. Is the market already saturate with villas as the recent price cut imply? No other private investor foreign or local ( sandy land backers, millennium investment ( crane ) , co williams, altman real estates ) want to touch the project with a 10 foot pole so why should we want nis money in it? These are all reasonable reason to keep nis out of it unless government will to give a guarantee on the debt. Failing to do that then government itself should invest in the project with the issuance of bonds to be bought by nis/local investors. or finance directly thru fx reserves.

@Anthony

Mea culpa I was thinking Chrysler and I typed Ford instead.

@balance

That statement which the late PM gave reassuring Barbadians and even those from the Eastern Caribbean will probably comeback at us later.

BU defended the statement at the time which was obviously meant to avert panic but the ‘stuff’ coming out in T&T has made everyone stepback and take another look.

Ah ha Anthony,

That’s the spirit … Then we build a ship building yard. Now that is capacity building. The cruise liner (hotel on wheels) will sale the seas competing for FOREIGN business around the world and the ship building yard will be used to build more …! What a plan.

You see what can come out when people put minds together? The amount of money spent on the maintenance of overseas missions over the past twenty years could have bought the Empire State Building (it is said in diplomatic circles)

@Anthony

Social security is not in a position to bail out anyone, but I digress. You refer to private companies not being interested in investing in the project but how do we know that they have the resources available at this time? Why should Williams invest in a project that will compete against his own at the Point? There are many examples of companies hoarding cash while the peons are suffering, why are folks protesting on Wall St. and other Financial districts?

Gov’t has to provide the economic lubrication to get the engine of the country running, it can’t stand pat and wait hoping that others will step up to the plate. If NIS invests in 4S it paves the way for more contributions to NIS to the benefit of those who are receiving benefits as well as those who will receive pensions in the future. How should NIS funds be invested? The Banks will take your money and lend it to whom they think are deserving and repatriate the profits to a North American or Caribbean country where the shareholders can enjoy increased share value and luxuriate in dividends while you get 3%.

Investments in jobs are a win win for any community, someone is supporting a family, they are spending money in the community, their dollars are circulating and helping other businesses grow.

@sargeant

When i meant private companies meaning foreign and local don’t want to touch it with a ten foot pole I just listed local ones that would invest anthem but haven’t . They are many foreign companies that have capital to invest such as ansa merchant bank who lent government the 60 million us for clear water 4s debt clearance they are also part of the of another 25 million us for 4s construction cost so they probably have enough to finance the whole project but have wary without any government guarantee . As for earning they gat about 5.5% for treasury bill And 7.5’% for bonds

@Sargeant

The issue here is more about transparency first and cost benefit second. We are making arguments for and against which is not informed by financial info or analytics put in the public domain. We want to know, the NIS is not somebody’s piggy bank.

millertheanunnaki

The operative phase of the Chairman’s comment is “or as soon there after as possible”. The Chairman has therefore committed to nothing …!

millertheanunnaki

It is also reasonable to expect the chairman to be at least basically honorable enough to state that he is prepared to remove himself as chair should his commitments (none made so far) not be met. I respect people who put their money where their mouths have a habit of treading.

Checkit-Out | October 17, 2011 at 9:54 AM | Barp Member; What are your views on Government utilizing NIS funds for 4S? Do you think that it is likely to have no impact on your pension or other future pensioner’s pensions.

I dont have a problem with govt investing in Barbados from excess NIS funds. As long as there is transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds can help us(the owners of NIS) out of recession. Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like,

@ Prodigal Son:
Your understanding of the turn of events does sound realistic.
The phoney marshal has to be a bit more contrite and stop trying to mislead listeners to his talk show sermons on business morality and citizens’ responsibilities to law and order and social etiquette. The former top executive of that organization was removed because he stood his ground on certain matters regarding the use of the NIS funds. He was perceived to be a BLP mole who was taking back info to OSA his godfather in climbing the executive ladder over the years.
OSA, it’s time you come out of your low-key shell and let Bajans know what is really going on with their funds. We do not have the time to wait on the publication of out-of-date so called “audited” financial statements that provide little insight into what is currently taking place with the NIS funds against the backdrop of the government’s fiscal deficit, general economic stagnation and rising unemployment (reduced contributions and higher benefits pay outs).

As implied in the press release the accounts for some earlier years (up to 2006) have been sent to the Auditor General. It’s passing strange that this financial watchdog would not want to make the return of these statements for earlier years a priority. We need some accountability and transparency in the administration of public affairs in this country.

@ BARP member:
“Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like,”

Please stop focusing so much on the past and let us address the current problems we are facing. If you have knowledge that infelicities actually took place then advise the current administration to invite the Auditor General to conduct the appropriate investigations to gather the needed evidence for the police and DPP. I am certain that an upright, church-going and fair–minded senior member of our society would like to see justice being meted out to wrongdoers.

@millertheanunnaki: “I am not privy to any deals. But any transactions involving public funds should be subject to the acid test of transparency and accountability.

Absolutely agree.

@millertheanunnaki: “Do you agree with that principle of public finance accounting?

Absolutely.

So then the question becomes, why has the public’s wish for transparency not been enabled?

@Prodigal Son | October 17, 2011 at 3:04 PM
“My sources tell me that they thought Jepter Ince was bad as chairman but Phony Marshall takes the cake. He was the one who made the decision to deposit the old age pension cheques into the banks without consulting poor Esther and then she was the one who had to go on DLPTV, to announce the withdrawal of the dumb policy. Phony Marshall and the Dems perceived that the Director is a Bee. From the get go, Phony was determined to move him but the director decided that he had to be seconded not transferred to the FSC.You see, the dircetor was standing up to the board and asking them if they think that NIS funds are a free for all.”
*********************************************
What a thing Prodigal! What you telling me at all?
Conspiring to rid themselves of a proper career civil servant, so unchallenged access to the peoples’ money is a certainty?

Remember too that all the decisions to use NIS money as a panacea for all the governmental financial woes, as well as cheque payment decisions reside not with Phony Marshall alone.

There’s the “POLITICALLY IMPARTIAL” UWI economist Justin Robinson
(is he deputy NIS chairman? I’m not sure) who, in spite of his “impartiality” would STILL be expected (HAS TO) to be absolutely pro-government. I remember all the ruckus about Brian Francis and Clyde Mascoll, but it seems this fellow Robinson has some special privilege of “professional integrity.” Recently heard him making some lame off-hand comment about “this is a good time to be an opposition politician”

@ Truthman Burton:
“but it seems this fellow Robinson has some special privilege of “professional integrity.” Recently heard him making some lame off-hand comment about “this is a good time to be an opposition politician”.

If he did make comments along this line, it certainly shows the insincerity and intellectual shallowness and simplicity of the person gassing off.
How can it ever be a good time to be in opposition in the West Indian political arena? No access to resources; no largesse to distribute to constituents; to opportunities to award contracts to help with electoral campaign financing and personal aggrandizement.

Unless this oxymoronic piece of advice is intended to inform us that things are so bad with the economy and the adjustments that have to be made are going to be so politically unpopular that the executors of these policies would certainly be carrying out political suicide.

Is that what you want for your man? Let his reputation remain in tact and his health protected from the stress that will be generated by the coming nuclear fall out on the economy and society!

Barp Member; I asked
“What are your views on Government utilizing NIS funds for 4S? Do you think that it is likely to have no impact on your pension or other future pensioner’s pensions?”.

You responded:-
“I dont have a problem with govt investing in Barbados from excess NIS funds. As long as there is transparency, accountablity and truth the NIS funds can help us(the owners of NIS) out of recession. Check-Out what are your views on Hardwood, Greenland, Barrack, Veco, Dodds, Hinckson, getting paid by Owen out of the Treasury without authorisation, the 24% increase in PM salary when Owen was PM. The list goes on and on start where you feel like”.

Spoken like a true true Politician not a play-play one.

Let me start here: NIS does not have excess funds as far as I am aware or as far as has been demonstrated to the public (No audited accounts for the last several years – the actuarial study doesn’t carry as much weight). NIS funds are held in trust to service its committments to contributors in perpetuity. No one knows what will happen in the future to render the current funds that NIS holds inadequate to meet some of its future committments to contibutors. You therefore cannot talk seriously about excess NIS funds.

You did not even try to answer my second question as to whether or not current NIS policies are likely to have an impact on your personal pension or that of future pensioners. Were you avoiding it? or would you like to respond again and say why, unlike many of the pensioners I have spoken to, you seem to have no problem with the possibility of current policies negatively impacting on your or others pensions.

The press release by the Chairman of the NIB suggests that there has been minimal transparency, accountability and even truth (check some aspects of the Chairman’s press release) in the current operations of the NIS. So are you hoping for these positive attributes in the future? Why would you think they will improve, given what is happening now?

Re. the political part of your response. I know very little about Hardwood beyond some snippets from the DLP’s last election campaign and if it was a corrupt operation the principals should have been dealt with by the law by now.
Re. Greenland; treat similarly, lock up people if infelicities can be proven and it is quite possible that that project would have been partially responsible for the BLP having been swept out of power in 2007.
Re. Barrack; evidently there was no overt provable corruption there as the present government is reportedly seeking to honour its committments to Mr. Barrack.
Re. VECO; again take the matter to the lawcourts and prosecute someone. Give us facts not innuendos.
Re. Dodds; the same.
Re. Hinckson; Was he paid in any different manner to the numerous consultants under David Thompson? Was’nt employing consultants out of the public purse an ongoing practice from Barrow days? Did Owen raid the treasury and pay Hinkson out of the proceeds?
Re. Owen’s Salary; The 24% increase in PM salary by Owen is news to me. If it is true did he raise his salary by 24% in one fell swoop? Was the increase cumulative over the 14 year term? Did he raise his salary and leave the then Opposition salaries stagnant? What was the increase in the Opposition Leader’s salary over the same period?

Having said all that I think it is repugnant that politicians of all stripes can determine their salaries and benefits and do so without conscience. This is true of both parties. The Sandiford Administration did it. So too did the Owen Arthur Administration. They were both wrong. This new administration has not yet had time to do it.

Both parties pay lip service to stamping out corruption but both stay far from doing anything tangible about it (eg. FOIA). However, Imho. The current Government is likely to go down in history as perhaps the most corrupt in our recent history, bar none.

@BU.David et al…

Does anyone but me find it odd that no Government of Barbados seems to be actually willing to enact a Freedom of Information Act?

It has been done elsewhere. Successfully.

Why not here?

@BU.David: “The political players in Barbados are all members of a club, enactment of the FOIA would disrupt the current arrangement.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but was not the FoIA promised by at least some?

Political Parties can promise anything and everything. You as a tax payer cannot sue them. In fact they can pay for services rendered to them from the tax payers’ purse. They assume office and completely f*ck things up, and leave office without a cent to repay. The other political party will assume the responsibility of cleaning up the others mess. What a sham. Only nincompoops vote for partisan candidates …!

@BAFBFP…

OK, but let’s face the facts.

Who can you vote for?

@Chris

it depends whether you are a D, B, independent or disillusioned.

Oh dear dear, why is it so difficult for people to understand that YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VOTE! It is irresponsible to perpetuate a process that you know is corrupt at source. Irresponsible and damned stupid. You are NOT obliged to participate in this shite arrangement unless of course you are serious about changing things and that should mean participating as a candidate.

@Chris

Thinking is influenced by several factors, loyalty is one of them.