@ Clone
“If he and Mascoll were that good they would have seen this recession train coming and restructured the economy so that it could have withstand the shock better.”

You have not answers my questions, but have chosen to give me a political speech. Answer the questions. It also seems that if one chooses not to support some of the decisions of the DLP, you are labeled a BLP. A rather naïve thought on your part.

As it relates to your above quote, you have an excellent point. However, any opposition party worth its salt would usually have persons shadowing ministries. The ministry of finance and the economy are very important, then surely the DLP must have had an economic shadowing these important entities, but monitoring the regional and international economies as well. The current economic recession began to show its signs in 2007, and if the DLP had persons monitoring the economy, they would have also known that a recession was on the horizon. The proposals outlined in the manifesto for the 2008 general elections has led me to believe that (1) that the DLP’s economic team were not monitoring the world economic environment, hence the proposals in the manifesto, or (2) the economic team was actually monitoring the economic environment, but it was all about winning the elections, and then use the current economic recession as the reason for not being able to implement many of the unrealistic proposals as advertised in the manifesto. Additionally, the DLP had 3.5 years to restructure the economy, but have chosen to blame the BLP and the economic recession for their inability to do anything.

@ Clone

“1. Free bus fares for children so as to ease parents, you may not understand because you have a car.”

“Free bus fares you quarrel about but I am hoping those people whose children can go to school every week do not vote for your party. That is sociological thinking not economics.”

Let me give you a little scenario. Miss Browne works for $450 per week, and would have had to pay $20 per week in bus fare for her two children who are attending secondary school. Thanks to the DLP she does not have to pay bus fare anymore, and for a 14 week term she has been able to save $280. However, let us look at her income and some of her expenditure for a fourteen week school term:

For the fourteen week term Miss Browne has a total of $5,663.70 to spend ($450 – $10.10% NIS = $404.55 x 14 weeks)

Thanks to the DLP she has been able to save $280 in bus fare for her children, and she is happy. But the increase in VAT to 2.5% and associated retailer mark-ups has caused her some worry.

Her children’s lunch money has increased from $20 per day ($1,400.00 for 14weeks) to $26, or $1,820.00 for the 14 weeks.

Personal items have increased from $50 per week ($700.00/14 weeks) to $65 per week ($910.00/14 weeks).

Groceries have increased from $100.00 per week (1,400.00/14 weeks) to $125.00/week ($1,750.00/14 weeks).

Her light bill is usually $65 per month; for the 14 weeks (3 month and 2 weeks) the total amount is $227.00. Unfortunately, as is the case of everyone, her light bill has doubled, and for the 14 week period, she now has to pay $455.00.

Her water bill has increased by 60% from $40 per month ($140/14 weeks) by an additional $24 to $64 per month ($224.00 for 14 weeks).

Miss Browne’s bus fare has also increased from $15.00 per week or $210.00 for 14 weeks to $20.00 per week ($280.00/14 weeks).

For the fourteen weeks inclusive of the children’s bus fare of $280.00, Miss Browne’s expenditure was $4,357.50, deducted from $5,663.70, left her with $1,306.20.
With the free rides granted to her children, she does not have to worry about bus fare, her woes have now gone into the ever rising cost of living. From her total income of $5,663.70, due to the increases, her total expenditure is now $5,439.00, leaving her with $224.70 for the 14 weeks. Her total expenditure has increased by a total of $1,361.50.
Miss Browne has been eased by the $280, but has been hit hard by the rise in the cost of living that your government has been promising to bring down. In this instance, does Miss Browne or anyone in her position care about sociology or about economics?

@Enuff
“I am still waiting for someone to tell me what this government has achieved that says they are worthy of re-election”

Therein lies the rub.

But, the counter rub would be, what has the opposition shown (either when in government or opposition) that says they are worthy of election? is 6 still half dozen?

@Clone
You continue to trivialise what the average person is feeling “personally”. What happens around the world or the magnitude of the greater good or grander picture do not factor in the minds of Joe Public when they have $200 – $1000 less every month. Granted though, given the prevailing climate, Barbadians must try to adjust their accustomed way of life,

Case in point, Sandi’s policies at a time when the world was reeling and the situation wasn’t our fault, may have saved the country, BUT, it cost him the government. Never underestimate the power and potential backlash of a woman scorned, a voter ignored or a public who is feeling personal or financial pain.

@ Clone

You feel that I am an idiot, because I am having difficulty understanding your reply to what I have stated. What does New York and barrels have to do with the situation? Not everyone has that privilege of receiving gifts from relatives abroad, so that is nonsense.

As silly as it may be, in 2007 NIS, VAT, cost of living, and bus fare were less, what is your point. Subtracting school meals does nothing for Miss Browne, especially taking into consideration that the prices of food and utilities are increasing often.

Free school meals, free health care, “bus fares” free education, and other free social services provided by the government are all part of a mixed economy system, where government use taxes to finance the social safety net. These social services are not gifts by any government, all citizens have a right to these privileges. However, you must bear in mind that, although voters are always in favour of having the government subsidise a product, or even provide it free, because we think that it is a good idea to avoid costs whenever it is possible, such policies do not remove the cost; but merely transfer it from one set of persons, the consumer, to another set, the taxpayer. Hence, whenever a commodity is provided free by the government, the costs are met by taxes. So by giving away everything free and saying you love people, will we be in a position to sustain these activities?

@David
The backlash and resentment of the public, coupled with the push of the opposition and a poor PR and explanations on the government’s part would have led to his downfall (deja vu anyone?) . Hall, Trotman et al. were just pawns in a bigger game. Plus too to be honest Sandi didn’t exactly run a tight ship anyhow so his political demise was inevitable.

The substantive point though based on Clone’s “comparison and cause-effect arguments,” is that problems may not be your fault…you can do a fair to good job of managing maybe even solving them….but, if the average person feels too much “pain” or the average politician is able to latch onto that “pain” you can still lose a government.

I have not heard a single word out of the blog owner or the BLP jokers on this blog about CLICO lately.

What happen the cat got your tongue?

What is silly about the fact that the woman would have been hard press spending the money in 2007?
You are missing the point of the barrels. I was trying to explain that Barbadians have family overseas who are telling them that the cost of living in those countries is very high also and that some items can be bought here cheaper. For instance a tin of corn beef in New York maybe 5 or 6 US $ but a tin here may cost 4 or 5 Bds$.

I am not trivializing anyone’s pain, but for too long especially under the BLP the people were fooled to live too far beyond their means. If you get free school meals take it and stop spending $40 a week.PM Arthur told the people he wants to see a car in every garage next to a house. Every cent in foreign exchange earned is used to buy cars from all over the world. He was never a PM who understood sustainable living.
Now answer David’s question about Mia

@Art

If revenue is falling and there are fixed debt payments what does the govt do?

It can cut expenditure by reducing the size of the public service which has balloned to this size thanks to owen. If govt reduces the size of the public service it means less money will be in circulation, less NIS, less PAYE etc. The Govt and the Social partners have reached an accord where they will try to maintian employment,

By the way you remember owen having legislation enacted that public officers salarie/wages cant be cut, yet he wanted to change the constitution to gurantee appoitments for his lackies to place a futher burden on the treasure. Also, you remeber the the 2007 public service act which setablished all those uneceeassy posts that he and his lieutennants had temporarily created initially. Well those post became established and persons were appointed to them if they had acted for three years continuously prior to dec 21 of passing of the act. Expenditure such as this is what the govt has to cope wiith.

Further, i would wish that every unemployed person could be working for 450 weekly. In addition, you need to factoring that the children could have been paying two sets of busfare daily. What have you down to show miss browne how to cut down on lunch money, prepared the luch for the children, show her how to grow vegtables in pots and pans and exchange with your friends. By the way i just plucked a breadfruit from the tree at standing height.

@enuff

Despite all the arguments and counter-arguments put forward there is no silver bullet if we were to survey the economies all around us.

You may include the economies of the developed world as well.

Sometimes we mouth off as if there is a known prescription for our economic ills caused by the worst global economy known.

0bserving

i realized that you are struggling with your argument, so I will help you from a socilogical perspective. The family is the bedrock of any society first and formemost. We are born into a family and the early socialisation in most cases will determine how we turn out. Most socilogist have agrred that
the first five years is important to a chil’d socilisation. If the child is raised where there are laspse values you dont expect him/her not to exhibit what he or she has been aculturerised to. The scholl plays a very important part as well, that is to say the haome and the schoold are responsible for a lot of the socialisation, notwithstanding that peer pressure plays a part.

Thus if we are too far gone, who do you blame? Our value system, we have become so materiaslistic that we can only see the economy and not the society aspect to living. We cannot take a defeatist attitude, and it is up to us adults to ensure that the values that keep society stable is intsilled in those under our charge.

Obediant
Thanks for the help but I left him with that expected reply that they conceptualize everything but build none during the time of plenty.

As David keeping reminding them they are speaking as if there is this magic wand that Owen and Clyde will wave and Barbados economy will rebound to the good old days.
They are really dreaming and intellectually dishonest in their arguments

“While the BLP lied about a land bank…the truth was these lands were never vested in the NHC.”

If there was no ‘land bank’ where did the lands Minister Lashley vested in the NHC come from? Out of the sky? The Ministry of Housing & Lands is government’s landlord as far as I know; therefore any land that is ‘banked’ would be owned by this ministry not NHC. The failure of the government to vest land in NHC does not mean there was no land bank.

@poor enuff

How much debt your governemt left for the dlp to repay? They were able to continue to pay the 8000 persons becasue they were borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and thus left this country with massive debt, And also encourage barbadians to live above their means by giving the imprssion that there was unlimited supply of money. What have your govt done with all the vat money it collected. It is a pit the party does not have money after so much steel in there according to serander. You can preach and preach, you have another six years in opposition. So be patient, barbadians understrand the internatonal economic environment and glad that they still can get something to eat although it migh cost more.
Dont you think that this govt would have had to close the gap by increasing taxes. Compare our revene to expenditure over the last 18 years and tell me what u have discovered.

How much money was owen woman who late becane his wife paid. How much money was shirley king paid, Hinkson, mackie holder, the scantleburry man these were all owen’s personal staff. Please bring it on.

Tell them BLP CROOKS Hants……as Kid Site so accurately sang this year…..RECESSION ALL OVER THE WORLD……So please left Fruendel and the DEMS for me.

@ Obediant
Every time I refute your claims you resort to personal attacks and name calling but I refuse to go down that road.
On the issue of debt–the DLP on demitting office in 1994 also left debts behind for the country to pay including the well known Japanese bullet loan. Moreover, since coming to government in 2008 the DLP government has borrowed MORE money in FOUR years than the BLP did in FOURTEEN.
Furthermore, the BLP did not borrow to meet recurring expenses like the current government is doing, the borrowing went into capital projects and, as you claimed earlier, to shore up FOREX.

@ Fractured BLP Party
Of all the projects started or completed so far, the current administration only needed to vest land at Coverley, Constant and Six Roads. Instead of relying on the 2008 strategy, you should focus more on building a plausible list of achievements. Be warned free summer camps and bus fares will not suffice.
When one uses FACTS, there is no need for one to be dishonest.

@obediant.

“Thus if we are too far gone, who do you blame?” — All of us

“it is up to us adults to ensure that the values that keep society stable
is intsilled in those under our charge” — what happens when our leaders, political class and clergy neither display, promote, encourage or push for these values??

when we say we are more than an economy we are a society, what type of society are we? what type of society do we want? what type of inputs are we willing to make to get the sociological outputs that we desire? what sacrifices are we willing to make (leaders mostly included) to show our society that we are truly SERIOUS about helping, shaping, guiding and improving them in a wholesome, visionary, productive and self sufficient way?

I honestly believe the late PM had a vision for what/where he wanted to go with this “society” mandate. I fear that none of our current crop is able to build on that vision.

I’ve never and will never only see things in dollars and cents. But, we cannot absolve our politicians and leaders for the damage and havoc they have wrecked on a younger generation’s perception of what is right, wrong or acceptable. Saying that home, school and church has to work together sounds great, but, WHO pulls them together? WHO sets the vision? WHO lays out the framework and path by which almost every individual who wants to, can see an opportunity for personal satisfaction and development? Society cannot fire on all cylinders without the right trigger, gunpowder and at the very least a competent shooter.

“if we dont establish values that will keep the society in equlibrium, all the politicains do is exploit the situation”

The politicians (both B and D) and other such leaders are part and parcel of the very reason that the society is in disequilibrium. They maintain the status quo at all levels so that it can continue to be exploited. The problem is, in this information and interaction age our young people no longer live in darkness, ignorance and with the folly that is handed down to them. Different times call for different leadership and different methods. If we spout society as a main focus then we must be prepared or show some preparation for the chickens as they return home.

http://www.nationnews.com/articles/view/bruce-golding-stepping-down/

This about Golding taking the hit over the Dudus Affair.