Submitted by Terence Blackett

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre
For many will come in my name saying they are Christ – Matt.24:5

On July 23rd 2011, riots and mass social unrest could have disturbed the peaceful Nordic enclave of Oslo, Norway – shattering its long-cherished peace. This peace was however rocked by a Freemason (an operative trained in the subversive arts of primitive Jesuit theology), falsely using the name of CHRISTIAN*- bedevilled with the assignment to create mass murder in order to stoke and provoke EU public opinion. The goal was to see Europe forced back to the ideals hatched during the era of the 1500’s (a discourse that can be fully explored and explained in the commentary section of this piece). So for those who claim that religion is an inconsequential issue – think again!

Let’s see why.

Firstly, in order to fully grasp this salient level of religious intrigue one must take a guided tour through the history of Europe from about 300 AD to about the 17th century (a period historians dubiously call – THE COUNTER-REFORMATION) – however, word count does not allow such an exhaustive analytic study of how a “dark, nebulously sinister power” has been able to control world governments, religious institutions, academic facilities and the underverse of crime, war, destruction and death we are witnessing today.

In April 2008, on the Catholic TV channel EWTN, former US president George “Dubyah” Bush, when asked in the closing moments of the interview what he saw when he looked into the eyes of the then Russian president Vladimir Putin, he remarked, “HIS SOUL”. When asked what he saw in the eyes of Pope Benedict XV1 – (his ubiquitous remark tolled like a Vatican church bell): “GOD”! Few in our world took any notice of the gravity of what the leader of the “free” world had calculatingly said in the glaring light of day yet somehow conspicuously hidden in plain view was an echo of an egregious historical past based on the religious tenets of PONTIFEX MAXIMUS

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, the question begs – where is the Biblical consensus that supports “another ‘God’ on earth”? And if so, how long will it be before we must all swear allegiance to his laws and decrees? What is remarkable is this notion that modern men still believe that the pope is equal to God? Are men so blind that they refuse to see what’s really coming down the road?

A cautious look at the historical evidence is a gauge to see why operatives like Anders Breivik (shrouded under the white sheet of freemasonry) do the biding of the Society of Jesus (The Jesuit Order) in order to bring Europe (FIRST) back to the ideals which created the Knight Templars, The Dominican Order and the Gestapo of the Roman Catholic Church – (the Jesuits).

Few know that this new company of priests was founded as a military organization by a Spanish soldier Ignatius Loyola in 1491 with the sole mission of bringing back into the fold of Popery – the “separated brethren” by any means necessary – employing insidious tactics of deception, cloak ‘n’ dagger spying, infiltration, assimilation, assassination and revolution as a mean of socio-political control.

It is impossible to have a proper understanding of history without demystifying the role that Jesuits have played in the last 600 years – politically, economically, socially and most importantly religiously.

A cursory glance at the Oath of Jesuits is not for the faint of heart. It reads as follows: “My son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope…”

“You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means…”

“You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the judiciaries and councils of state, and to be all things to all men, for the Pope’s sake, whose servants we are unto death…”

“You have received all your instructions heretofore as a novice, a neophyte, and have served as co-adjurer, confessor and priest, but you have not yet been invested with all that is necessary to command in the Army of Loyola in the service of the Pope. You must serve the proper time as the instrument and executioner as directed by your superiors; for none can command here who has not consecrated his labors with the blood of the heretic; for “without the shedding of blood no man can be saved”. Therefore, to fit yourself for your work and make your own salvation sure, you will, in addition to your former oath of obedience to your order and allegiance to the Pope…”

If we are indeed our brother’s keeper, does not the freedom to choose allegiances remove any potential element for self-serving tyranny? History has proved to the contrary!

Professor Arthur Noble writes that “the reinstatement of The Inquisition in the 16th century was spearheaded by the Jesuits as were its atrocities and it is estimated that in this century alone, no less than 900,000 Protestant martyrs laid down their lives for Christ…”

Amongst the horrors of the Jesuits was the St. Bartholomew Day Massacre of 1572 in France where between 70,000 to 100,000 were murdered because of the manipulation of King Louis to do away with The Revocation of the Edict of Nantes of 1685 which provided civil and religious rights for Protestants that made their faith illegal and as a result some 500,000 souls perished because of persecution at the end of a sword.

So with the Edict of Nantes revoked and Protestantism outlawed – it was easy to finally kill and imprison heretics for reading, being in possession or distributing Bibles in France. At the same time, the Jesuits were at work in England through the Archbishop of Canterbury William Laud to also outlaw the importation, printing or reading of the Bible.

In the book by F. Tupper Saussy, “Rulers of Evil” it is said that, “by 1556, three-fourths of the Society’s membership was dedicated in [46] Jesuit colleges to learning to indoctrinate minds with the learning of illuminated humanism as opposed to the learning of Scripture. This network would expand by 1749 to [669] colleges, [176] seminaries, [61] houses of study and [24] universities partly or wholly under Jesuit direction.”

J.E.C Shepherd’s in his book – The Babington Plot alludes to the fact that “between 1553 and 1931 – the Jesuits were expelled from [83] different countries, city states and cities for political intrigue and for hatching subversive plots”.

In America at its inception, the Jesuits had already made moves to plant its presence amongst the Founding fathers and president John Adams in a letter to Thomas Jefferson wrote – “I do not like the resurrection of the Jesuits… shall we not have regular swarms of them here, in as many disguises as only a king of the Gypsies can assume… If ever there was a body of men who merited eternal damnation on earth and in hell, it is this Society of Loyola’s…”

English 17th century enlightenment historian Thomas Hobbes wrote that “if a man considers the original of this great ecclesiastical dominion, he will easily perceive that the Papacy is no other than the ghost of the deceased Roman Empire, sitting crowned upon the grave thereof…”

What is truly sad is that modern-day Christian Protestants no longer believe as did the Reformers that popery was evidently antiChrist – this has been due to the fact that Jesuit infiltration on every level (most markedly within the interpretation of Scripture) has done a massive con-job of making theologians and others believe subliminally that Lucifer is in fact God and that the Pope is the other God here on earth.

Vatican arch-critic and author Edwin Sherman called the Jesuits – “THE ENGINEER CORPS OF HELL” in his provocatively titled book – where on the pre-published front cover can be seen the “Assassination” attempt on Abraham Lincoln paraded in plain view. It was purported by Catholic priest and friend of Lincoln – Charles Chiniquy that the Jesuits were responsible for his murder and Chiniquy sets out to chronicle this in his own book – “50 years in the Church of Rome”. Chiniquy quotes Lincoln’s own words: “It is not against the Americans of the South alone, I am fighting, it is more against the Pope of Rome, his perfidious Jesuits and their blind and blood-thirsty slaves that we have to defend ourselves.”

Even in the 20th century, author Edmond Paris in his book – The Secret History of the Jesuits documents how the Society of Jesus influenced, aided and even funded the NAZI* party. He said, “The SS organization had been constituted according to the principles of The Jesuit Order…” Hitler referred to his general Heimlich Himmler as his Ignatius of Loyola and obtained the Nazi Swastika at a Catholic abbey from a priest called father Hagan.

Irish firebrand preacher and neo-Protestant agent provocateur – Ian Paisley in describing to the press who the Jesuits were said – “They are the Gestapo of the Roman Catholic Church who carry out the orders of the Pope throughout the world.” Dr. Paisley defends his position by quoting Edmond Paris’ book by arguing: “I am giving a quotation from the ‘REFORME’…which is what the press of the Spanish dictator Franco published on the 3rd of May 1945, the day of Hitler’s death…”

Paisley continues – “Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church died while defending Christianity. It is therefore understandable that words cannot be found to lament over his death when so many can be found to exalt his life. For over his mortal remains stands this victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of victory.”

So it was the Jesuits who orchestrated the 3rd Reich uniting a national-socialist state to Catholic Christianity – a narrative often swept under the carpet by the media and the churches.

19th century preacher of righteousness Charles Spurgeon had warned that “the new breed of preacher would be short changed by the so-called hallowed institutions of learning because they keep back a portion of the Gospel…having studied in the Devil’s new Jesuitical colleges…”

For Spurgeon, the mark of “Cain” is a constant reminder to Popery that “A fugitive and a vagabond you shall be on the earth” (Genesis 4:12) where murder, paedophilia and every other known imaginable evil has been done to those who are your brothers – in the name of a “FALSE” god. Just as Cain cared only for himself, so does this evil Church. For there is no repentance on its part for what it has done in its long savage history or even today.

Lastly, the personal words of the Oath taken by each Jesuits in the last [600] years ought to be enough to seal the argument:

“I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants’ heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever.”

Dominus Deus noster Papa solus in terris …


  1. @Bush Tea: “Seek – and you will find; ASK – and it will be given.

    @LEMUEL ARETI: “Why are you fightrenen to let go of your moorings for once.

    You both sound like Buddhists. (This is a Good Thing, IMHO.)


  2. @ lemuel
    If you REALLY understand the truth, then you will surely appreciate why some others cannot…. and you will also understand how useless it is to try to ‘prove’ the truth to such a person. (this is why bushie likes to harp on the parables LOL)

    There is only ONE WAY for anyone to ‘get it’ – and it is NOT by healthy debate LOL.

    Bush Tea’s approach is to simply show persons like Zoe the deep holes in their theology and to hope that the realization leads them to “surrender their will” (as you put it) or to knock on the door; and to SEEK and ASK.


  3. To Bush
    Thanks. It is not about cracking Zoe. He or she meeds to understand that they do not have exclusive righs to Bible interpretation. He or she continues to repeat the same thing yet each time I bring new evidence or new confusion. Bush i know whom i believe in and he has always been there for me. Zoe and friends will have to demonstrate clearly from the word of God his truth.


  4. To Zoe:
    The King James reads for ps 146: 4 His BREATH goes forthhe returneth to the earth in that very day his THOUGHTS PERISH. How can he or she then be in Heaven with out thouhgts. Why is the translation here Breaht and not Spirit. Zoe i thought you do not hide things. Do not undersestimate the sources that are at my disposal.


  5. Lemuel, and others, who reject the Biblical pronouncement of everlasting PUNISHMENT for the lost, in conscious misery, MAKE a MOCKERY, literal CONTEMPT, for the absolute JUSTICE and Righteousness of Almighty God, who do NOT understand the nature of Christ’s vicarious PUNISHMENT, which HE* Jesus experienced, literal DIVINE PUNISHMENT, by (1) Alienation and SEPARATION from the Person and gifts of His* Father, where He cried OUT, from Calvary’s Cross, “MY GOD, MY GOD, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” ( Matt. 27: 46) (2) Conscious PAIN, SUFFERING, and MISERY, from alienation and suffering, for US, as He was paying the redemptive PRICE, for our SINS, having taken our PLACE, He FELT to FULL wrath of His Father’s JUDGMENT, on our behalf, to the literal point of ALIENATION, SEPARATION FROM* His Father, as there was NO other way, Almighty God’s JUSTICE demanded, that someone, had to PAY IN FULL* for our SINS; this was completely accomplished by the Second Person, of the Eternal Godhead, The Lord Jesus Christ, and HIS* DEATH* on the Cross illustrates the SEPARATION* of body and SOUL, which takes place at death. Thus, when Jesus died, His body remained intact in the tomb, while IN His Spirit or Soul, He went to Hades according to Peter in Acts 2:27 and in I Peter 3:18-20.

    We must pause for a moment at this point, and emphasize that NONEXISTENCE, was NOT the punishment inflicted on the body and soul of Christ, NO! NO! NO! He bore what we ALL deserve, in Hell, so that IF, anyone rejects God’s offer of forgiveness and Salvation through Jesus, they MUST suffer the consequences of Eternal punishmentwhich IS* conscious misery IN* separation FROM God’s grace, mercy, and love, which IS* the necessity of Divine Judgment.

    Secondly, if there is NO eternal suffering and punishment, as the SDA, JWs, et al erroneously believe, that the LOST, will be annihilated, cease entirally to EXIST, THEN, from WHAT* have we being redeemed, and for WHAT* purpose and REASON* did the Lord Jesus Christ, have to leave His absolute Glorified position IN* Heaven with His Father, and become God/man, experienced SUFFERING, ALIENATION, and SEPARATION from the absolute union He had with His Father, from Eternity, in order to pay the FULL PRICE for our Redemption?

    If this is NO everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire, as describe in Revelation, THEN, there is nothing to fear of eternal punishment, as ANNIHILATION, according to the SDA et al, is what it is all about, so then, there is NO logical reason to do as Jesus commanded, REPENT, what is there to Repent of, if, there is NO eternal punishment, let’s ALL forget about this Repentence thing, have a BALL, drink and be merry, hedonism to the MAX, as there is NO Hell, or Lake of Fire, as emphatically described in God’s Word!


  6. @LA: “Do not undersestimate the sources that are at my disposal.

    A spell-checker does not appear to be at your disposal… (That’s meant to be funny, and serious, at the same time….)


  7. @Zoe: “If this is NO everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire, as describe in Revelation, THEN, there is nothing to fear of eternal punishment, as ANNIHILATION, according to the SDA et al, is what it is all about…

    This is actually what this is all about.

    You et al are afraid of dying.

    @Zoe: “[S]o then, there is NO logical reason to do as Jesus commanded, REPENT, what is there to Repent of, if, there is NO eternal punishment, let’s ALL forget about this Repentence thing, have a BALL, drink and be merry…

    Quite to the contrary. As I believe Jesus understood.

    Those who believe they only have “one life to live” on this earth understand that they should live their lives to the fullest, and to try to do their best for others during this “one shot”.


  8. To Halsall
    Whether I can spell or not is immaterial to this dsicourse.
    To Zoe:
    Let us go from the beginning. ADAM SINNED and separated himself from God. Christ came to reestablish that communion. See luke chapter one. What Christ sufferred onthe cross was the full separation form God; that is why he used the word forsaken. he also sufferred the enormity of sin. His sufferring did not turn God into any blood thirsty ogre ready to send people to entrenal torment. That is roman catholic foolishness that even protestants contiunue to spew. But Zoe, how do you handle Ezekiel on Satan’s end, Read chapter 28. Look at verse 18 thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquitiesby the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore I shall bring forth fire fromthe midst of thee , iit shall DEVOUR thee


  9. and I will bring theeto ashes UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behols thee. If hell is somewhere under the earth, why does this happen to satan on the earth. I fthere is eternal burning why is he reduces to ashes and consumed. He as you believe is to burn forever and ever.


  10. @LEMUEL ARETI: “I[sic] fthere[sic] is eternal burning…

    Is it worth noting that the stars will continue burning hydrogen, and then helium, until the end of the universe?


  11. Stillwind, is the apparent ability of a trained mind to move an object, located across a room, a power of such mind to exert a physical force or its ability to command unseen-to-the-eye spirits in the room to go and move the object? Go, my son, and determine this for then the simplicity of life’s complications will become apparent.


  12. The Resurrected, Glorified Bodies, of those WHO Jesus bring with Him, in their Spirits/souls, from heaven, at His appearing, at the Rapture, plus those who remain and are alive on earth, at that time, who ALSO* will receive their Glorified, Bodies, to be caught UP* in the Air with them, IS* the point at which this Glorious Gift* of IMMORTALITY, occurs, as stated in God’s Word, in I Thess 4: 13-18, and I Cor. 15: 35- 56. Rev 2: 7, makes NO mention of anything to do with our Resurrected, Glorified Bodies, this is so typical of “Cultists” always reading INTO the text what it does NOT even imply, let alone explicitly state, which then becomes a pretext* for all kinds of un-Scriptural doctrine.

    Additionally,

    1. Man soul/spirit is viewed as being separate from his body ( Eccles. 12: 7; Isa. 10:18; Matt. 10:28; I Cor. 5:5).
    2. Death is said to occur when man’s soul/spirit LEAVES the body ( Gen. 35:18; I Kings 17:21, 22; KJV – “Life” in NASB; Eccles. 12:7; James 2:26)
    3. Man’s soul/spirit is the SEAT of his intellect ( Prov. 23: 7; 29: 11; Mark 2:8 ; I Cor. 2:11; 14:15; Acts 4:2; Phil 1:7, 27; Heb. 12:3).
    4. Man’s soul/spirit is the seat of his WILL ( Ex. 35: 21; Ps. 103: 1; Matt 26: 41; Eph. 6:6)
    5. Man’s soul/spirit is the seat of his emotions ( Gen. 26: 35; 41: 8; Ps. 42: 1-6; 2 Cor. 2:13; cf. Matt. 26: 38; Mark 8:12; Luke 1:46, 47; 2:35; Acts 4:32; 17:16; 18:25; Eph. 6:6; 2 Peter 2:8).
    6. Man’s soul/spirit IS the place of INNER worship ( Ps. 51: 10; 17; 103: 1; 146:1; Luke 1:46, 47, cf. Matt. 22: 37; John 4:24; Rom. 1:9; Phil 3:3; Heb 12:22; Rev. 6:9).

    Humanistic thought has a view of man, which is too low because it reduces him to the level of brute beasts. If humanistic thought were true, then HEDONISM should be pursued ( Eccles 5;18; 10:19, etc ). BUT, man is not an animal. He is uniquely created in God’s image, and his “ego” “soul” “Spirit” etc., survives after his body, crumbles, dies. Thus, his spirit/soul returns to the Creator for judgment ( Eccles 12: 6,7).

    The KJV translators, rendered ‘ruach’ from its Hebrew form, as ‘breath’ in Psalms 146: 4, wheras the NKJV, from which I quoted translated “ruach” as “spirit” . The word “ruach” is found 361 times in its Hebew and Chaldee forms on the Old Testament. It is translated in the KJV as follows:

    The Spirit of God: 105 times
    The spirit (in man) 59 times
    The wind: 43 times
    Spirit (attitude or emotional state: 51 times
    Breath: 14 times
    Mind: 6 times
    Side (of wind): 7 times
    Blast: 4 times
    Vein:2 times
    Air: 1 time
    Tempest: 1 time.

    The context, determines the way it is translated. Again, it IS* imperative to NOTE*, that The SPIRIT* of God, is rendered 105 times from ‘ruach’ AGAIN, I ask, does this mean that God’s SPIRIT “BEING” is nothing more than a “BREATH” of AIR? As these folks are saying, that man does not have a soul/spirit, in his INNER self, he is nothing more than a ‘breath’ of AIR, so then this ‘breath’ of air, thinks, feels, has emotions, LOVES, HATES, has deeo desires, etc, etc, all from a breath of AIR, which just goes “PUFF” and leave his nostrals, mouth, at the point of death; what utter rediculous nonsense, this is akin, to the absurdity of Evolutionary Materialism, more NONSENSE!


  13. @Zoe: “…this is akin, to the absurdity of Evolutionary Materialism, more NONSENSE!

    So speaks a man (lower-case intended) who can’t even think for himself, but instead repeats what he’s been told by others in the hopes it will be believed by yet others others…

    Yawn….


  14. @ CH, “So speaks a man (upper-case intended) ( Dawkins, Hawkins, & co) who can’t even think for himself, but instead repeats what he’s (them) been told by others (Darwinists frauds!) in the hopes it will be believed (in IGNORACE has!) by yet others”

    “Yawn..” Be careful, you might loose your ‘Spirit/soul’ or, maybe what’s in you, ‘breath’ or more appropriately, evolutionary HOT-AIR!


  15. To Zoe:
    You are now getting it, man is he body of clay and the breath of life from creation from God. There is no distinct spirit which inhabits a body and then leaves when death occurs. Then you are suggesting, another roman catholic myth, that this spirit is eternal. If that is the case how shall God destroy this eternal spirit. Common fire shall have no effect on it. Furthermore, why did God then have to put one of his top angels to guard the tree of life in the garden of eden to avoid Adam and his descendents from eating of that tree and living for ever. Go back to creation. Look back at the references in your commentaries to see that. Look at the witch of endor. Do you believe that it was the prophet samuel that came up from the grave. if you do then it establishes what you believe in this eternal spirit which roams between heaven and earth. When Satan comes in the latter days those of you who believe that stuff shall be easily led away. Stop being self righteous about others going to hell and burning in eternal torment. It shall not happen. Now that you mention the rapture I now see where you are coming from. You have this belief that God shall take you and others away while the rest of us are tormented by the last plagues. Read revelation again. You shall go through the time of trouble but Ps 91 shall be the foundation of your faith; none of those plagues shall touch those who are God’s own. Stop repeating your narrative that has worked before. How can God destroy Satan if he is eternal. Eze 28 does not say that. You are spewing roman catholic dogma.remember what Lazarus sister said Lord I know he shall rise on the last day. If Lazarus was enjoying heaven, why would Christ bring him back to this sin torn earth and its daily struggles. She seems to know something you do not.


  16. Let me again use one of your text and the language is plain for all to see. Eccl. 12:7 Our bodies shall return to the dust of the earth, and the breath of life will go back to God, who gave it to us. How much plainer can the scriptures be to you. Is this out of context too. Or are you still persisting with the various forms of hebrew and greek. This translation was done by men more learned than you or me. Even the romans who did this translation and who believe as you do in eternal spirits rendered this text as it is here.


  17. To Zoe:
    Stop being dishonest. the rendering of the text is not breathe of air; it is breath of life; it is that element which when it runs out we die unless God intervenes. I do not know how it works so don’t ask me. What I know is that the scripture is plain for all to see.


  18. Come back GP, and even Kairosfocus, and let’s see how many pinheads can dance on an angel.

    If you totally dedicated truthseekers on here, with your impressive, yet somewhat megalomanic, determination to retranslate (exegise) the written word to conform to a sect’s particular interpretations, can’t even agree on your chosen God’s eternal truth, what chance have we the obeisant Sabbath collect taxpayers got?

    Are we saved or not?

    Is organised religion another Clico?

    Where is the government inspector to protect our investment?

    We are being sold here on earth an alluring vision of clean linen, harp ensembles, picnics of milk and honey by babbling brooks, reuniting with your long gone Mums and Dad (and by deduction their’s also) in a sylvan paradise.

    Nice sales pitch, but it’s only to be gained by three score years and ten of hard labour, poverty and absolute, unquestioning servitude to the system, “The Lord Above” and paying today’s premiums to smartly dressed gurus who have divined the truth from the dross of a million previous scams.

    Strangely in their alleged afterworld, no money is required, in fact moneyed people, including tele-evangelists will find it particularly hard to pass through the Needle’s Eye of “Heaven’s Gate.
    So why, from the electrically wound down tinted windows of their SUVs, are they always demanding even the widow’s mite?.

    Did Christ have a whip round on the Mount to cover his fish cutters?

    Why is this all powerful God through his well-to-do agents on earth always asking for our money, now.

    Is their God skint?

    Has he overstretched himself in Florida, have we any credible testimonials other than his suspect propectus (KJV)?

    I think we should be told.


  19. Making my call in true bu spirit/liquor like (brandy and coffee) in the morning I declare the world will end by next tuesday

    Hurricane Irene pummels NY amid fears of flooding ☁☂


  20. nothing lasts forever in life.. you might as well party / drink brandy


  21. To Straight talk:
    Communicating with you only makes sense if you believe there is a God and that when he created this earth that he had joy and happiness planned for mankind, while at the same time man would have gotten to know him and would have fully developed. from the tone of your piece I doubt you have that belief; in fact you seem to have joined the ranks of the scoffers who delight in attempting to bring GOD to their level. the only real valid question I see you posit is are we saved or not. You have to determine saved from what; for in revelation (the end times book) those who have decided like yourself to scoff and pander to popular myth are caught with their pants down calling on the hills and cliffs to hide them from the face of the Lamb of God. Then you will be left with the agony of what you forfeited for the things of this earth including human wisdom, which you are now spouting here. I believe there many points of doctrine that Zoe and I can see eye to eye, but there are fundamental ones that we need to know and practice for the end time or we could be caught in Satan’s web of deceit.


  22. To Zoe :
    I know you maybe in church but I will see your response later. When Moses came back after being in the mount for 40 days and nights; his face had to be covered for it was covered by a light that was covering his face and the people could not look upon it. Book of Exodus. That is the covering that renewed man shall be retuning to. Notice that it was given to Moses and he still had his BODY OF CLAY. If his earthly body was not that important why did God not wait until he was translated to then give him this covering. Stop letting these bible commentators fill your mind with their foolishness; you need to think. Noticed I have not gone outside of the Word of God.


  23. Punishment: Conscious and Eternal.

    Those who claim to believe in God, and His Son, The Lord Jesus Christ, yet, twist and deny what HIS* Word, states about conscious, eternal punishment, by resorting to all kinds of ‘humanistic’ unscriptural interpretations, violating, ALWAYS, the sound principles of Biblical Hermeneutics, Contextual Analysis, and Linguistic Exegesis, so typical of cultists, they really don’t have a clue about Almighty God’s absolute Justice and Righteousness, attributes of HIM* from whence comes such conscious, and eternal punishment, for those who, wilfully and arrogantly, scoffed at His Love, Mercy, and Grace, offered IN, through, and by, The Lord Jesus Christ.

    The Holy Spirit, the third Person of the eternal Godhead, INSPIRED, the writing of God’s Word, using LANGUAGE, that God created, to communicate HIS Truth to us, also using our ‘frame’ of reference to CONVEY, spiritual truth, and REALITY, that we could relate to.

    Therefore, when the orthodox believer, speak of eternal punishment being administered by the JUSTICE* of God to rebel sinners, they are referring to an ultimate and IRREVERSIBLE alienation and SEPARATION* from God, NOT annihilation, as NO such concept can be derived from ANY of the various words, used by the Holy Spirit in describing God’s ultimate judgment, on the lost souls.

    God’s HOLINESS demands JUDGMENT against all sin, and thus we find that the history of redemption is FILLED* with AWESOME* displays of God’s Holy anger.

    The annihiliationists, have taken many words from Scripture, and sought to reduce them to mean, ‘nonexistence’ or annihilation, which on careful linguistic examination, simply CANNOT mean any such thing.

    Take for example, the words, “destroy” “perish” or “consume” the conditional immortalists, have dishonestly attempted to assert that these words mean annihilation. None of these ‘cultists, offer an lexicographical evidence or exegetical material, in support of this falsity of interpretation, NONE whatsoever, they just pull it out of their twisted mind-sets, terribky biased by their leaders.

    Thee problem IS* their beginning assumption that these KEY words mean annihilation IS* erroneous. Once this is clearly established, the foundational assumption which RUNS throughout most of their arguments IS* overturned. Let us examine some of these key words which they assume mean annihilation.

    1. “Destroy” or “destruction.” Various forms of the words “destroy” or “destruction” appear 495 times in the KJV. They represent approximately 50 different Hebrew words, and 12 different Greek words. None of them have the lexicographical meaning of “annihilation” or “to cause something to pass into NONEXISTENCE”, and an exegetical examination of the text where these words are found reveals they CANNOT* be arbitrarily defined as annihilation.

    For example, in the OT, the word “ahvad’ is the word which is usually translated as “destroy.” In Numbers 21: 29, the people of Chemosh were “undone” (‘destroyed” in NIV). In the context, the meaning of “ahvad”
    is that the people were conquered and sold into slavery. They were NOT* annihilated, but enslaved. In I Sam. 9: 3, 20, Saul’s asses were “ahvah” i.e., lost. These asses were NOT annihilated. In Hab. 1:15, the word “Gah” means to catch something in a net, NOT* to annihilate it. In Hos. 4:6, God’s people are “destroyed” for lack of knowledge. In the context, this CANNOT* mean that they were nonexistent, or annihilated.

    In Jer. 23:1, 2, we have a classic example of the usage of the words “destroy” and “scatter”. In the text, it is obvious that these words CANNOT* mean annihilation.

    In the Greek, “apollumi” is used to describe ruined wineskins, lost sheep, and spoiled food (Matt. 9; 17; 15:24; John 6:27). ‘Apolia” in Mark 14: 4 refers to wasted perfume. “Diapthero” refers to moth-eaten cloth in Luke 12:33; “Kathairesis” to the pulling down of a fortress ( 2 Cor. 10:4); “Kataluo” refers to lodging for a night (Luke 13:7); “Luo” refers to putting of one’s shoes ( Acts 7:33); “Portheo” refers to persecuting the church in Gal. 1:13; “Phthiro” refers to defiling the temple of God in I Cor, 3:17.

    The assumption that the words “destroy” and “destruction” automatically mean annihilation, is terrible English, much less good Hebrew or Greek. we can think of someone bei “destroyed” or “wiped out” in an emotional sense, without implying that the person has ceased to exist, or annihilated.

    2. “Perish” or “perished”. In various forms the word “perish” appears 152 times in the KJV.

    In the Old Testament, there are 11 Hebrew words which are translated as “perish.” The main word “ahvad” is the same word which is frequently rendered as “destroy”. we have already seen that it IS* ERRONEOUS to assume that “ahvad” means annihilation. “Sha mad” is found in Jer. 48:42, where Moab is said to be “destroyed” in the sense of the people being enslaved, NOT* annihilated.

    In the New Testament, there are 10 different Greek words which are translated “perish.” Some of these words such asd “apolumi” were also rendered as “destroy” and do NOT* mean annihilation. “Apothneesko” is used in John 12:24 to describe the grain of wheat which when plantes “dies” and then sprouts. Obviously, it CANNOT mean annihilation.

    Even in English we speak of fruit as “perishable” in the sense that it can spoil. Burned out light bulbs have “perished” But, in neither case is annihilation intended.

    3. “Consume” or “consumed.” Forms of these words appear in the KJV 162 times. In the Old Testament, 20 different Hebrew words are translated as “consume.” The usual word, “ah chal” is also, used in Ps. 78: 45, where the Psalmist says that the flies “devoured” or consumed the Egyptians. The psalmist surely meant that the flies TORMENTED them, NOT* annihilated them. In Ezek 13:13 where hailstones “consumed” a wall, i.e., knocked it down, NOT* annihilated it.

    In the New Testament, three Greek words are translated “consume.” The main vern “analisko’ is used in Gal. 5: 15 to describe the Christians as “consuming” one another, i/e., fighting or tormenting each other, NOT& annihilating each other.

    What is NOT understood by ‘annihilationists’ is the FACT* that because something IS* destroyed, or PERISHED, does NOT mean it ceases to exist, it simply MEANS, that it no longer FUNCTIONS, in the capacity that it WAS originally created and intended FOR.

    Take for example the beautiful Mercedes Benz that Princess Dianna was killed in. There it WAS under the bridge, WRECKED, MANGLED, but, it was NOT* annihilated, it did NOT cease to exist; it simply was DESTROYED, that IS* it could no longer FUNCTION, in the capacity for which it WAS originally made.

    Or, another example, we have all heard and seen, some famous athelete, footballer, whatever, who had a serious accident, he is paralyzed, he CANNOT move his hands or feet, he is confined to a wheelchair, he can NO longer FUNCTION as an athelete, BUT, he is most certainly NOT* annihilated, or does he cease to exist in this debilitated condition!

    Such is the CONDITION, dysfunctionally, of those souls/spirits, fallen angles, and Satan, who will be PUT in Everlasting Torment, DAY and NIGHT, which BTW, is a frame of reference used by God, in His Word, to which we can relate, meaning, it NEVER STOPS, more on this later!


  24. “Communicating with you only makes sense if you believe there is a God and that when he created this earth that he had joy and happiness planned for mankind, while at the same time man would have gotten to know him and would have fully developed. from the tone of your piece I doubt you have that belief; in fact you seem to have joined the ranks of the scoffers who delight in attempting to bring GOD to their level. the only real valid question I see you posit is are we saved or not”

    You got that right Lemuel.

    I don’t subscribe to any of your beliefs, and if I scoff it’s because frankly I find them childish and even dangerous to the feeble minded.

    Your God so loved the world that he drowned everyone except Adam and his family. Such love. Such compassion. Such bunkum.

    I wasn’t addressing you personally, Lemuel, so you carry on smartly with your beliefs, and let me be comfortable with mine.

    I have no need for a father, his son or indeed his holy duppy, to keep me on the straight and narrow.
    I am a free born man and prefer to keep it that way by avoiding the comforting words of all and any manipulative soothsayers.


  25. To Zoe:
    When the Book of Ezekiel speaks of reducing Satan to ashes in 28:18. Does that not mean destroy.You now are bordering on heresy. Between the major prophets there are sections reserved for discussion on the fate of Satan. The names vary from King of Tyre etc.., but the overarching message is that he will be destroyed. I think it is Isaiah66:24 (did not check) who spoke of the saints trampling the ashes of those destroyed by God’s eternal fire. Where again the mistake is made is the fire that is doing the destruction is eternal, but burns until every thing is consumed. It was the same eternal fire which consumed Sodom; is that fire still burning today? You and your crew seem to be coming to the conclusion that sin shall not be totally destroyed; I hope that is not so. if this passage in Isa 66:24 speaks of the saints in the new heaven and earth seeing the bodies of the rebels against God outside the walls of the new Jerusalem, how then could hell be under the earth. It does not make sense. Your concept of God’ hell being a place of complete separation form God in definitely not scriptural. You seem to hopping form doctrine to doctrine I don’t mind; I can follow anywhere you go. By the way, I am not any of those things or beliefs that you think I am; I eat and breathe the word of God not biblical commentators.


  26. To Zoe :
    I hope you are not going to come ans tell me that the word ashes now mean a rebirth of some kind.


  27. Hi Straight Talk or Better Barbados:
    There is a question I always pose to scoffers like yourself. What if we deluded people are right? Well our Bible describes some serous consequences, not the eternal torment by Zoe and his fellas. You should therefore be aware. I am aware of your world where we humans would continue to slaughter and hate one another until we finally destroy each other. Albeit all of us would be smiling sweetly with each other while this world collapses. I cannot tell you what to believe, but If we are right then it shall not be well for you my good friend.


  28. The Judgment of God!

    While conditional immortalists, asume, wrongfully, and erroneously, that God’s judgment means a passing into nonexistence, annihilation, His* Word, the Scripture speak of God’s afflicting people with mental and physical suffering as His punishment for sin.

    Going back to the beginning in Genesis, on the day that man, Adam sinned in the Garden of Eden, he “DIED” that IS* he was/became SEPARATED* and ALIENATED* from the Person and gifts of Almighty God, his Creator.
    The word for DEATH in the Greek, is “thanatos” it does NOT* mean, cessation of consciousness, or annihilation; it MEANS, separation FROM, or to separate. Therefore, the FIRST death, Adam experienced, as stated in an earlier post, WAS, ‘spiritual’ separation FROM* God, that IS* his fellowship, communion, raltionship with his Creator, WAS severed. Secondly, Adam then experienced PHYSICAL death, that is, the ‘separation’ of his very being, his SOUL/SPIRIT, from his body.

    Throughout redemptive history, man’s SIN has led to a SEPARATION and ALIENATION from the Person and gifts of God ( Isa. 59:1-10). This alienation has provoked God to afflict sinners with suffering. These afflictions are not, however, retributive, or sadistic, NO, they are remedial ( Ps. 119:67, 75). For example: (1) God vexes people, i.e., causes them mental fear, terror, grief, confusion, and bitterness (Deut. 28: 20; 2 Chron. 15:6; Job 27: 2; Ps. 2:5; 6:3, etc). (2) God aflicts people, i.e., causes them internal and external adversities and griefs ( Ruth 1:21; Ps. 88:7; 90: 15; 119:67, 71, 75; Nah. 1:12, etc). The divine punishment which fell upon Christ was “afflicttion” and NOT annihilation, see Isa. 53:4,7. (3) God troubles people (Deut. 31: 17; I Sam. 16: 15; Job 27: 13-17. (4) God punishes people with great suffering such as the plagues of Egypt ( Ex. 7-12), or by consuming them, or causing them failure and grief at whatever they do (Lev. 26: 36-42; 31: 17)..

    And we must hasten to add, that any objection based on the supposed conflict between the character of God, and eternal suffering IS* doomed to failure, because, there is N)* conflict between God’s character and suffering in this present life. As a matter of fact, the Scripturess, His Word, indicate that God begins the process of punishing SINNERS with suffering in this life, and He continues to punish them in the intermediate state ( 2 Peter 2:9) and WARNS of Eternal punishment in the final state ( Matt. 25: 46).
    Biblican Terminology.

    That divine punishment awaites rebel sinners IS* something which IS* SO* CLEAR* in Scripture, that no honest exegesis can avoid it. The issue which divides the orthodox from the annihilationists, is the duration of punidshment. the orthodox believe that it is eternal, while the annihilationists think it once-for-all passing into nonexistence. The debate has centered on whether or not such Biblical words as “olam” imply that eternal punishment awaits sinners. Thus, we must first define such words as “olam” in order to see what they mean.

    Will be back on this vital matter in a few minutes!


  29. To Zoe:
    You are becoming more and more obtuse. If God is the sustainer of ALL life forms, and you are SEPARATED from God completely, that life form shall DIE. He is the giver of all life, even Satan’s, every animal ,plant or animate thing. You can only live outside of God If you are immortal and we are not, only he is.


  30. To Zoe;
    Your recent pieces are reminding more and more of when I had to read Dante’s “inferno”, another piece of roman rubbish.

  31. Creation-Science Avatar
    Creation-Science

    http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/hell.htm

    The Truth About Hell Fire

    Some people are very sensitive to the thought of seeing other people suffer. Small birds, mammals, and even rats can draw our sympathy if we see them fall into a fire or being run over by a car. In the Bible, there is a concept that frightens a lot of people. Its about Hell and Hell fire. Some people have rejected God because of this topic. It is reasoned by some: How can a God be so loving, yet burn people forever? So, what does God really do with the wicked? Does He burn them in such a way so that they burn forever in unending suffering?
    Hell Fire, Does it last forever?


  32. Old Testament Terms

    While there are 11 Hebrew words which are translated as “forever,” “everlasting,: “eternal.” ternity,” etc., in the KJV, only ‘Olam’ is used specifically of the FINAL judgment of the wicked.

    It is necessary to point out, that the ‘annihilationists’ have a consistant, problem, and habit of terribly misapplying texts. This they do, by constantly putting forth dozens of passages which actually pertain to the fate of the wicked in THIS* life, on earth, as if these passages were speaking of the final punishment of sinners after the resurrection. Th dishonest habit, confuses the issue and IGNORES the “this world” context of these passages. Such is the folly of these annihilationist!

    Since “Olam” is the key word in the Old Testament which is used to speak of the final state of the righteous AND the wicked, I’ll limit my invrstigation to it.

    The word “olam” is found 420 times in the Hebrew Bible. It is defined by Langenscheidt, as : “time immemorial, time past, eternity, distant future, duration, everlasting time, life time;m pl. ages, endless time” (p.243). Girglestone summarizes “Olam’s” meaning of the Old Testament (p.317) as follows:

    ” Eternity is endless; and this idea is inly qualified by the nature of the objects to which it is applied, or by the direct Word of God. When applied to things physical, it is used in accordance with the revealed truth that the heavens and earth shall pass away, and it is mimited by this truth. When applied to God, it is used in harmony with the truth that He is ESSENTIALLY and absolutely existent, and that as He is the ‘causa Causarum’ and without beginning, so in the very nature of things, it must be held that no cause can ever put and end to His existence. When the word is applied to man future destiny after the resurrection, we naturally give it the sense of endlessness without limitation.”

    The word “everlasting” (olam) is a word which describes a contrast between things. It is a contrastive word in that whenever something is called everlasting, we must ask, “Everlasting as contrasted to what?”

    Olam is used to speak of the past, the present and the future. When speaking of the past, whenever God is said to be “from everlasting” (Ps. 90:2), this in contrast to the present world, which had a beginning. God is thus “beginningless,” or “eternal” as contrasted to this world.

    Olam is also used of the future. When it is used of God’s future, He is described as being “to everlasting,: i.e., endless as contrasted to this present world which shall have and end (Ps. 90:2). thus, in Ps. 102, the beginning and end of the world is contrasted to the endlessness or eternity of God (vv. 12, 25-28).

    in this way, the final order of things AFTER the resurrection is called “everlasting” in contrast to the present order (Dan. 12:2). While the present order would have a definite end, and will cease to exist one day, the final order of things will be “everlasting,” i.e., endless. While time is an aspect of the present order, it will not be part of the final eternal state.

    The Old Testament concept of ‘olam” aviods the static Greek idea of eternity, because the Scriptures never speak of ‘Olam” as existing in and by itself. It is always used to contrast one thing to another. What is germaine for us to consider, is that whenever the FINAL order is described as “everlasting” it clearly means “endless” in contrast to the temporal nature of the present order. Since time no longer exist, whenever “olam” refers to the final state, it CANNOT* mean a longer or shorter time, for time as we know it has ceased.

    This understanding removes one of the arguments used by the annihilationists. They have argued that “everlasting punishment” does not mean everlasting punishment, because the word “everlasting” is used of mountains in Hab 3:6 (KJV). Therefore, they argue that the punishment will only be temporary and not eternal.

    What the annihilationists fail to realize is that they are ignoring the relative context of ‘Olam’. When it is used to speak of such things as mountains, it has reference to things that exist throughout different generations in this present world. However, when “olam” is used of the FINAL order of things, it ALWAYS means ENDLESSNESS in the fullest sense. The point is, that the respective context for “Olam” should NOT be ignored, as annihilationists always do, to get around the FACT, of endless, eternal punishment for the wicked lost souls!

    More to come on this after lunch, and my afternoon snooze, as we look at “everlasting” LIFE, and “everlasting” punishment, the adjective that qualifies BOTH nouns, if it is not true for one, then how can it be true for the other? Think about seriously, as you CANNOT have one without the other!!!


  33. @Lemuel
    Threats apart, I sincerely hope you are right, and the length of time studying ancient texts, looking for a purpose to it all was a worthwhile lifelong pursuit for you.

    Being a simple person I think the propagation of my genes is more than enough raison d’etre, and my joy in life is revelling at the achievements of this product.

    Hopefully my afterlife will only consist of the fond memories of time spent here on earth held by my friends and family, for I shudder to think of a celestial future in the eternal company of some on this forum.

    St

    P.S. Better Barbados was for a post on the other blog re: the closure of The Ship Inn, supposedly prior to conversion to a slots palace.


  34. @ lemuel

    Don’t say that the bushman did not warn you about Zoe….LOL

    @ Straight Talk
    If when you look at the world around you, …and you look back over your years of experience, you are convinced that the whole thing is just a meaningless accident of chance -then the thing to do (obviously) is to eat, drink (or what ever makes you merry) for your remaining time in the ‘accident’ called life, and have yourself a ball.
    No one can fault that.

    If on the other hand your common sense leads you to see some kind of design and method to life around you, it is only obvious that you will want to come to understand of what that design is all about ,and how you can maximize your potential in the plan.

    Most people can’t even even figure out that ice is cold, far less that there is a grand design in life….. we probably can’t help those types.

    Some people (like my friend Zoe) can see the design -and they join the nearest group that claims to understand the grand plan. Upon indoctrination, they then defend their ‘faith’ with all the gusto they can manage. (and Zoe has NUFF gusto …LOL)

    A few persons can see that there is more to life than just the day-to-day stuff; but they can also see the folly of the group mentality – so, like you, they cuss everyone – and decide to ‘punish’ the grand designer by dismissing and ridiculing the various groups and even the grand plan.

    Then there are those like the bush man……
    1 – When Bushie see brilliant engineering design, he knows that there must be some bright engineers somewhere in the background.
    2 – Engineers are bright people – they always have a logical reason for the things that they do
    3 – On the other hand, most people are idiots. If they tell you to run, you should stop! So in Bushie’s opinion ALL of the groups who claim to know the plan are probably wrong.

    What is a bushman to do…? Go to the SOURCE….

    Lo and behold, BT learns from the source that in order to understand the truth one has only to SEEK, KNOCK and ASK.

    …now to cut a long (35 year old) story short, BT is one of the Big Boss Engineers’s apprentices. But BT don’t belong to any religious group, so whether ST believes or not is neither here nor there. …. if the bushman can assist a genuine ‘seeker’ or ‘knocker’ or ‘asker’….. then by all means,

    But your position is respected too….as are the positions of the scoffers, the trinity boys and the geeks like CH.

    LOL…. Just have not been able to figure out BAFBFP….


  35. @BT

    Wha’! you sussed out the grand design but my friend BAFBFP, agent provocateur par excellence, got you fuddled?

    He is almost as close as that Chinee coolieman as to how the world spins.

    As for the philosophical stuff, I have my mind full of what is happening in this world, and sad as it may seem to some have no care for what happens to me after planting.

    I’m old enough to look back on my life and think “not a bad job done, for a man with such meagre attributes”, and that sense of fulfilment owes a lot to your “character” and determination.

    I’ve not noticed any divine intervention, but there again I’ve been too busy to seek it.

    What’s the latest estimate for the rapture?
    I’ll try my best to stick around for the show, just to prove me wrong again.


  36. Lemuel, “If God is the sustainer of ALL life forms, and you are SEPARATED from God completely, that life form DIES…yiu can only live outseide of God if you are immortal, and we are not, only He is.”

    You just don’t get it, do you! And probably never will!

    Our English words ‘Life’ and ‘Death’ are woefully inadequate to truly explain their real meaning and intent. You ‘Scoff’ at scholarship, Hebrew and Greek words, which God used in the FIRST place to Divinly record His Word How then are we to get to the bottom, so-to-speak, of HIS* WORD* the Scriptures, if we do not consult the linguist and grammarians, without whom, in God providence, we simply would NOT* even have any English or other translations?

    First, the English word ‘Life’ is rendered from the Greek word in the NT, Zoe, it does NOT mean existence, per se, any more than “DEATH” from the Gk, Thanatos, means Non-existence, cessation of consciousness, or annihilation. Listen carefully, Zoe, means, a certain “QUALITY” of conscious existence, which can ONLY come from God, through a Redeemed, Justified, Saved, personal relationship with Christ; hence there are litrally BILLIONS of walking DEAD people on planet earth,.who are alive, mentally, intellectually, etc, but they have NO* REAL* LIFE* as they are OUTSIDE* of God’s real life-givinb ZOE, which can only come through Jesus Christ; this is why, Jesus said to another of his disciples, who said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.” But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the DEAD bury their own DEAD.” ( Matth. 8: 21b,22).

    How can a DEAD man be buried by another DEAD person? Well, Jesus was obviously saying, your father is DEAD, so let some other person who is ALREADY DEAD* spiritually, deal with you father’s burial, as you are ALIVE ZOE* in Me.

    Conversely, the Greek word for DEATH, ‘Thanatos’ does NOT* mean cessation of consciousness, soul ‘sleep’ or annihilation, it MEANS* the absence OF* a real, conscious, vibrant, meaningful, RELATIONSHIP, with God, through Jesus Christ.

    This is where the Biblical concept of “SEPARATION” FROM* God’s Grace, Love, Mercy, comes into the picture, as removal FROM* Him, His presence, does NOT* constitute absence of existence, but, rather, THE* ABSENCE* of His LOVE, GRACE, and MERCY. This logically follows from the ALREADY state of DEATH, spiritually speaking, that BILLIONS are IN on earth, and this STATE of being spiritually DEAD, from rejecting God’s Grace and Mercy NOW, in Jesus Christ, will continue FOREVER, in everlasting torment, as DESCRIBED in His Word, the Bible.

    Now, Yes, only God has ‘essential’ immortality, that is, NO beginng, and NO end. But, He created the Angelic hosts, Lucifer, now Satan, and mankind, with immortal souls/spirits, so that Satan, the other fallen angles, now Demons, Principalities, etc, WILL continue on IN* existence, forever, in Torment, as emphatically stated in God’s Word, the Bible!

    You CANNOT* have ‘Eternal’ LIFE’ without ‘Eternal DEATH, which means from the Greek word, ‘Thanatos’ SEPARATION FROM* or to SEPARATE, not extinction, or annihilation. This IS* from God’s Word. Not some man-made nonsense! This is ALL in the Greek that the Holy Spirit Inspired in the first place, not some Catholic nonsense!


  37. @ Zoe

    Not to disturb your trend of misinformation, but you asked ”

    How then are we to get to the bottom, so-to-speak, of HIS* WORD* the Scriptures, if we do not consult the linguist and grammarians, without whom, in God providence, we simply would NOT* even have any English or other translations?
    *************************************************
    Bushie is ABSOLUTELY sure that you know the answer to that question, but that this answer does not suit your current trend of misinformation.
    Look at Romans 8 and see the correct answer to the question of how we get to understand the word…. it is called the Holy Spirit.

    As the bushman tried to explain before to you, God did not design his word such that the Crumpton street types would have an unfair advantage – think this is Barbados Scholarships or what??? LOL


  38. so who or what is the HOLY SPIRIT?Since they are three persons in one God is the Holy SPIRIT a representative of GOD or does the HOLY SPIRIT act as an intervener between man and GOD?


  39. so who or what is the HOLY SPIRIT?

    @ ac
    You asking the Bushman …. or you trying to confuse poor Zoe some more?


  40. Not forgetting that if they are three persons in one GOD than the Holy SPIRIT Would be and should be considered “GOD” having said that why would GOD not be GOD all by himself why would god need to be a threesome. After all as told by by the Story in Genesis HE created all that is. Not in this prsent time he is having assistance in order to relate to the very beings he supposedly created. Why is the purpose of it all . Isn’t GOD ALMIGHTY!


  41. What is the purpose of it all ? isn;t God Almighty? To me this is man’s way of trying to identify with “A GOD” one that can not been seen touch or heard in the physical. , Having three persons in one GOD is a figment of man’s imagination a true flaw and a design which was set up for failure and which disputes the creation story of having “ONE GOD”


  42. ac | August 28, 2011 at 4:05 PM | Having three persons in one GOD is a figment of man’s imagination a true flaw and a design which was set up for failure and which disputes the creation story of having “ONE GOD”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I am not particularly knowledgeable about the Bible.

    I hope this verse about the “creation story” helps.

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

    I remember that verse quoted by a pastor in a sermon dealing with the Trinity.

    If I understood him correctly, the “Word” was Jesus Christ.


  43. @John
    Plese read Genesis CH 1 . Nothing is mentioned about the word . It simply states that “GOD” Created ..Now you can also read First John and he mentions the Word . While you are at it Look up the meaning of the word”WORD” i am certain it doesn’t infer a person as indicative as “A WORD”


  44. @ ac
    It may be best to just leave some things alone….but

    “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.”

    As Zoe will confirm, ‘God’ is a collective word (like Crowd, or Club or Team) So the above merely says that when time (as we know it) was started, Jesus (also called the ‘Word’) was there, and was a full member of the collective group called ‘God’.

    All things were made by HIM (the Word) and without HIM was not anything made that was made. (In other words, the other member components of the collective called “God” did not create the earth – HE did.

    Other personalities from the collective do exist and were referred to from time to time – in particular ‘The Father’.. Nowhere does it say that there were only two or three or any number of members.

    Now with respect to the ‘spirit’, the bible talks about a ‘spirit’ in man. It represents the consciousnesses and self-awareness that we have as individuals. As you may know, our spirit tends to be one of selfishness, strife and materialism – what the bible calls ‘carnal’

    Similarly, there is a ‘spirit’ of God which represents God’s consciousness and self- awareness. This Holy Spirit is characterized by such things as love, patience, hope, charity, peace etc

    Unless a carnal Human Being is imbibed with this holy spirit there is no hope of reflecting the attributes of God. Paul speaks extensively of this situation – comparing it to a fight between the two personalities.
    The Holy Spirit also comes with various ‘gifts’ (See Romans 8 as suggested to Zoe above) including the ability to comprehend the ‘mysteries of God’.

    So when Jesus speaks of the need to be ‘born of the spirit’ he is referring to the condition where a human being is imbibed with this ‘holy consciousness’ along with the natural human consciousness with which we are born naturally.

    Does that answer your question?

    …but
    Don’t ask Zoe – Bushie bets that he still thinks that the Holy Spirit is an individual just like Jesus….LOL. – Got that from the Catholics too…


  45. Yes Bushie that the Interpretation as the WORD by first John is subjective to critical thinking meaning that God was the creator of the”WORD”and that should be singular .meaning ONE THING or ONE GOD who manifested or show his power or will by use of the “WORD.”
    Bushie your interpretation of the Holy Spirit is not in context with biblical teaching since the HOLYSPIRIT can only dwell in a person who have surrender his will to GOD or have been “BORN AGAIN”


  46. To Zoe:
    I knew that if I engaged with you long enough that I would see some indication of where you are at. You obviously have not gotten pass the codrington college type who see the Bible as theirs for their own interpretation, along with their latin, greek and hebrew commentaries. The concept that everlasting life or existence has to have everlasting pain and suffering for sin in the earth made new to counterbalance GOOD is NOT BIBLICAL. I HAVE GIVEN you Isa 66:24 WHICH CLEARLY does not split word configurations but states that the redeem shall walk on the ashes of those who rebelled against GOD’s rule and his Law. Basic when something is reduced to ashes how can you continue your zealous everlasting punishment, with the blood thirsty zeal that you have. What you are expounding is very similar to the old mystic and masonic concept that there must be evil for good to exist. Meaning that good has no need to exist if its sole purpose is not to counteract evil. Yet you over look the very scriptures that tell you that God thoughts are way beyond man’s thoughts and the God cannot be tempted by evil. He is the ultimate GOOD and does not need a side kick to keep him busy. This is why he created all of us for GOOD; Adam decided that the things of this world (wisdom and understanding offered by Satan) looked better and handed this earth’s dominion over to Satan and his gang.
    Do you realised that with the covering that Moses had that that was only a tiny part of God’s glory, but it was still too much for the carnal isrealites in the desert; this is why Moses had to cover his face.
    To give an example of God’s up keep of human existence. If you have a fire which is being fueled by gas, when the gas is no more then the fore goes out. God is our gas, if he dies or ceases to exist tomorrow the we DIE. We do not slip into any other conscious state. If you are saying that within you are eternal then you are imbibing Satan’s lie to our original parents: You shall not surely die but shall be a gods knowing good and evil. I have to keep this simple because others reading must follow the folly of your argumentation, especially Bush Tea. I must also apologize for not being a barbados scholar. Not that I think that is any help to you Zoe.


  47. Lemuel, Ezek 28: 18b, “…therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devor thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all men that behold thee.”

    In 28: 14, satan had occupied a special place of prominence in guarding the throne of God (cf. Ex. 25:20). 28:15, Lucifer was perfect, in the sense of moral soundness and integrity. By creation Lucifer was perfect, until, PRIDE entered him, which was his downfall ( I Tim. 3:6; Isa. 14:13-14).

    28: 16-19. Satan’s judgment is announced in these verses, but, it will not be consummated UNTIL he is cast forever into the lake of fire ( Rev. 20:10). Here Satan’s position in God’s government is terminated, though he still had access to heaven ( Job 1:6). In the middle of the tribulation, he will be cast from heaven and restricted to earth ( Rev. 12:7-13). At the beginning of the Millennium he will be cast into the shaft of the abyss ( Rev. 20: 1-3) to be loosed for a short time at the end of the Millennium ( Rev. 20: 7-9), then cast unto the lake of fire forever.

    Satan IS* a SPIRIT being, even though he and his Demonic entities, can appear AS* departed ‘souls’ in an ecoplasmic sense for the express purpose of DECEIVING people on earth, posing as, or in the likeness, of departed relatives, who CANNOT come back here, whether they be in Heaven or Hell, as this is not permitted by God; except for when the Prophet Samuel, in a soveriegn act of God was allowed to appear from Paradise to speak to King Saul, which TERRIFIED the witch of Endor, as she knew in her deceptive art of Witchcraft, that it was NOT possible to call up any departed souls, it was ONLY Demon spirits, masquerading AS* these departed souls, so that when she actually SAW, that it WAS Samuel, she screamed in HORROR, at his literal appearance, as Samuel, in his soul/spirit was NOT, as your think, in some state of non-existence, or soul-sleep.

    Now, as to the term, “ashes’ in Ezek 28: 18, with Satan as a ‘spirit’ being, NOT flesh and blood, not an ‘physical’ entity, why do you think, God used the term ‘ashes’ what does this symbolize, convey, ruination, devour, bring to total DYSFUNCTIONALITY, not extinction, or annihilation, which will be his ultimate destiny and fate, when he is cast into the lake of fire, (Rev. 20: 7-9).


  48. Isaiah 66; 24, Let us hear what God says, not men!

    ” And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of men that have transgressed against ME; for their worm SHALL NOT DIE* neither shall their FIRE be QUENCHED* and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”

    Like the Eternal new heavens and the new earth, Israel shall endure forever (v.23), and the wicked will be punished forever. (v. 24)


  49. ac | August 28, 2011 at 4:39 PM | @John
    Plese read Genesis CH 1 . Nothing is mentioned about the word . It simply states that “GOD” Created ..Now you can also read First John and he mentions the Word . While you are at it Look up the meaning of the word”WORD” i am certain it doesn’t infer a person as indicative as “A WORD”
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I looked up John 1 as you suggested and started to read it.

    I used the internet to get to the chapter by just googling John 1.

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/joh001.htm

    I read and then I came across this at verse 14 which seems to me to infer, no, state rather emphatically that The Word was Jesus Christ, but as I have said before I am no Bible scholar.

    “14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

    I then googled Genesis 1 and yes I saw in the first verse the words “God created” as you say but then I figured John 1 14 was saying that God and Jesus Christ are one in the same so GOD was being used in Genesis to mean both God and Jesus Christ, the Word.

    It seems pretty clear to me but then as I say, I am not a Bible scholar.


  50. … just seems to me you have to use both New and Old Testaments when reading the Bible because one cannot be independent and contradictory of the other.

    So I am comfortable with the fact that God and Jesus Christ are one in the same.

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