Submitted by Terence Blackett

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In my Father’s House are many mansions and if it were not so I would have told you…John 14:2

 

In 1972, Beatle – John Lennon released the most famous song ever recorded by any human being with words that ominously ask us to -“Imagine there’s no Heaven, it’s easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky, imagine all the people, living for today…”

4 decades later, on Monday May 16th 2011, (reported in Reuters) ahead of the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London where speakers included British finance minister George Osborne and Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz found imminent physicist Stephen Hawking hogging the limelight ahead of an all-important speech. Before the meeting, Hawking was asked to address the question – “Why are we here?”

Hawking argued that “tiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe sowed the seeds of human life.” He suggested that – “Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” He said “I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I’m not afraid of death, but I’m in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first,” he told the Guardian newspaper. “I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark.” When asked how we should live he said: “We should seek the greatest value of our action.”

What a thought-provoking statement by Hawking but more so his comment that – “We should seek the greatest value of our action” which presupposes that life is utilitarian in its ethos yet it is somehow peppered with Aristotelian philosophical strands. One wonders at time if Horgan’s words do have a merit of truth where he says that guys like Hawking are a kind of “cosmic comic performance artist who loves goofing on his fellow physicists and the rest of us.” But is he goofing around or is he positing a serious philosophical slant which has its roots in classical literature? Or is Hawking indirectly admitting that there is an epistemological conundrum which for 1000’s of years remains unresolved as to why we are really here on this planet?

Let’s attempt to answer Hawking & Co. by looking at what ancient philosophy has taught us and how has science helped to undermine or bolster those positions?

As early as the 1820’s the Universe was thought to be 6000 years old. It is now thought to be some 14 billions years old with dimensions of some 150 billion trillion miles across at it nearest point and ad infinitum at its farthest. In our own galaxy, if one were to travel across it at the speed of light (186,000 miles per second) it would take over 100,000 years from one end to another. And if according to astrophysicists, in the universe every 88 gallons of space contains one atom and the furthest back into the universe you look – the more the past emerges into the future, is it even possible to explain life at the subatomic level where we enter the nexus of the Divine? These are some of the questions which science is incapable of answering.

So what about the age-old question that has baffled philosophers, scientists and even sceptics since time immemorial? Why are we here? What is the role of man in the grand schema? And how does the pervasive logic of zeitgeist in an age of moral relativism infringe on Biblical truth, where men laud this idea that there is no distinct or Absolute Truth, underpinned by this notion that all roads lead to home and that “truth” is whatever we individually conceive it to be?

Today, most of our philosophical strands of ideas have emerged out of classical, modernists and postmodernist theory. However, these philosophical perspectives on the meaning of life find their ideological basis in terms of ideals or abstractions defined by fallible human beings.

Classical philosophy for example, was shaped by the narrative of the Batman & Robin of their time (Plato & Aristotle) who believed that the meaning of life is in attaining the highest form of knowledge, which is the Idea (Form) of the Good, from which all good and just things derive utility and value (sounding much like Hawking’s position).

Human beings are duty-bound to pursue the good, but no one can succeed in that pursuit without philosophical reasoning, which allows for true knowledge. Aristotle arrived at this philosophical slant called being “virtuous” where – “Every skill and every inquiry, and similarly, every action and choice of action, is thought to have some good as its object. This is why the good has rightly been defined as the object of all endeavours… Everything is done with a goal, and that goal is ‘good’”.

And so classical philosophy took on many myriad forms moving from Aristotelian to the era of the Cynic philosophers to the Socratic school of Cyrenaics, to the Epicureans and to the Stoics who occupied Mars Hills in the days of Paul the Apostle when he confronted them about their statute to the Unknown God (Acts 17:16-34).

With the advent of the Enlightenment Period, science and philosophy entered a new frontier of discovery, with each discipline fighting over inch of pre-modernist terrain. Classical liberalism during these centuries became a harbinger for the clash of civilizations which would continue for another 200 years where the tensions between devotion and subservience to God were largely replaced by notions of empirical science, inalienable natural rights and the potentialities of reason, and universal ideals of love and compassion which gave way to civic notions of freedom, equality, and citizenship.

The Enlightenment ideals were borne out of conflicts between a growing, wealthy, propertied bourgeois class and the established aristocratic and religious orders that dominated Europe and the then known world. Subsequent philosophies of Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and Adam Smith were to be overshadowed by Kant’s Categorical Imperative and to finally give rise to the 19th century paradigms of the Utilitarianism of Bentham & Stuart-Mills et al.

These classical forms of Zeitgeist hardly lacked spokespersons – merely for the simple fact that there have always been those who do not believe. Science continued to trumpet the fact that the Church has always been on the wrong side of the debate. Case in point, when Galileo began to explore and explain the theories of Copernicus about space and planetary orbits and that the sun was the center of our solar system with the earth travelling around it – the Roman Church was angered. This went against the contraventions of 15th century interpretation of the Bible by the Roman Catholic priesthood. Galileo was harshly treated and placed under house arrest. Galileo died in 1642 and it took [350] years for the Vatican to pardon and expunge his name as a “HERETIC”. Science has never let the church forget the Galileo blunder! So astrophysicists, theoretical scientists and others have concluded that religion is the adversary of reason and have expelled the church from the halls of academic credibility.

During the 18th century, a young French philosopher named Francois-Marie Arouet writings reached the king of France and in his anger had him committed to the Bastille. That 21 year old young man while locked away for no crime other than for the crime of positing another form of philosophical reasoning chose the pen name VOLTAIRE* and as Will Durant in his book – The Story of Philosophy quotes Victor Hugo: “To name Voltaire is to characterize the entire 18th century. Italy had a Renaissance, and Germany had a Reformation, but France had Voltaire; he was for his country both Renaissance and Reformation, and half the Revolution. With Voltaire, France began to think.”

Voltaire eventually escaped the Bastille and amongst his most famous writing was a play called “Candide” based on a fictionally inspired scholar called “Pangloss”* (a professor of Metaphysico-theologico-cosmologico-panology or more simply described as “OPTIMISM”) – a play which caused most of France to start to question their faith.

Voltaire was an admirer of Isaac Newton (a devout Christian) but his dialectic thinking resulted in him questioning miracles, the Virgin Birth and the Resurrection – consequently ruling out these Biblical principles. His denunciation of organized religion and the clergy was to set the stage after his death in 1778 for the mayhem of the French Revolution – [15] years later. The Reign of Terror and the guillotine murdered thousands; Bibles were burned and the ominous words of Voltaire rang out across France that belief in God was useless. Three and a half years of disowning God proved that “ATHEISM” in France was to be the path to ruin and abysmal destruction.

Atheism was further bolstered by Friedrich Nietzsche’s characteristic nihilism – as emptying the world, and especially human existence, of meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, and essential value. This was the century where the final bulwarks were erected against God and the possibilities of any hope of Heaven. Hence German philosopher Freidrich Nietzsche assertion that “God is dead” and the ensuing epoch where human reasoning and philosophy became the pre-eminent “gospel” of truth for men who sought an excuse to debunk God. In his book titled “Antichrist” he write: “I call Christianity the one great curse, the one enormous and innermost perversion, the one great instinct of revenge, for which no means are too venomous, too underhand, too underground, and too petty.”

This was the son of Lutheran ministers on both sides of his family. The dark zeitgeist of Satanic infiltration met Nietzsche at his Waterloo. In the crushing crescendo of such “genius” Nietzsche fell off the wagon and spent the last [11] years of his life completely insane where the statement was coined “God is dead” but before the door of his life closed he made one ominous prediction that “the 20th century would be the bloodiest in human history”. Sure enough, historians recount the 180 million souls who perished through war, disease and displacement.

“Nietzsche had a final look at the kingdom erected by his own theories and it frankly terrified him” His disciple Sigmund Freud studied his theories and created vast psychological models based on Nietzsche’s atheism and so did Carl Jung. What’s even more diabolical is the fact that the [3] most tyrannical political leaders of the 20th century (Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler) devoured his writings with rabid fascination and malevolent zeal. And so the fruits of atheism created a pretty sober menu for the inhabitants of Europe during the last apocalyptic century.

“Then as the world took a final destabilizing lurch toward the abyss with the arrival of Charles Darwin”, with his “theories of evolution and survival of the fittest” – we witnessed the frontal assaults on the very existence of God as CREATOR*. Darwin quietly confesses with some anxiety how he slowly shed his belief in the Bible and in God. First to go was miracles because if something could not be verified by science it had to be abandoned. “Disbelief crept over me at a very slow rate, but was at last complete,” he admits. Karl Marx, a disciple of Darwin, found clarity and symmetry in the theories of evolution. Marx saw “religion as the opiate of the masses”. Marx even asked Darwin if he could dedicate his most prolific work “DAS KAPITAL” to the British scientist and so he did.

The 20th century arrived with serious advances in science – a quantum leap into the beyond where in the last [100] years we have gone from sailing galleons to nuclear submarines; from Orville Wright to the possibilities of time-travel; from the alchemy of herbal concotions, shrubs and Hippocratic medicine to nanotechnology and space-age biotech discoveries. Mankind has finally emerged from the shores of early 20th century pragmatism, existentialism, absurdism, secular humanism, logical positivism, postmodernism, naturalistic pantheism and evolutionary psychology to a meaningless world of MORAL RELATIVISM* where there are no absolutes especially when it comes to Divine Truth, a Divine Designer or a primordial world tucked away in the 3rd Heavens where God The Creator exist in a place called Eternity – to many an “imaginary” world brought on by delusionary Christian thinking.

In conclusion, 1950’s Communist atheistic Russia were the 1st in space with their Sputnik rockets. In 1961 cosmonaut Gheman Titov while speaking to reporters, journalists and admirers at the World Fair that year boasted that: “I never saw God up there.” A young comedian in the crowd shouted back: “If you’d just stepped out of your capsule for a closer look, you would have seen Him!”

Then in 1968, the United States Apollo 8 space program mission made the ultimate step for humanity by landing a man on the moon. While the world stayed gripped to their TV screens, in the words of Christian apologist Ravi Zacharias opined: “They saw Earth rise above the horizon of the moon, draped in a beauteous mixture of white and out of, bordered by the glistening light of the sun against the black void of space” – and in the throes of that awe-inspiring moment those astronauts opened the pages of Genesis and read for the world to hear: “IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH…”

Here are the polarized opposites which we face in our world. Here are [2] groups of extremely bright, well-educated, scientifically-minded persons hurtling through the dark matter of space – one group sees nothing but a vacuum; the other sees the CREATIVE HAND of GOD*!

“Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on Heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendents may live.” (Deut.30:19)

Choose LIFE!!!

192 responses to “Why Are We Here? Atheism’s Narrative: Zeitgeist In An Age Of Moral Relativism And Where Deluded Scientists Inspire Men To Believe There Is No God Or No “HEAVEN””


  1. LOL @ Zoe

    It has to be REALLY hard on you when you come across these anomalies that challenge your theology….. cuh dear…. Sorry.

    But it JUST DON’T make sense to say God is not responsible for Satan- it was Lucifer he made….. LOL Sounds like those mothers in district E court claiming that the criminals in the dock are not their responsibility – they delivered innocent cute babies….LOL.

    This is not as bad as the bushman’s favorite one though – where Jesus deliberately MISLED the people following him around with parables because he did NOT want them to know the truth or understand what he was saying…. LOL

    If you were a scientist instead of a theologian you would know that such situations indicate that your thesis is likely to be flawed and that you should therefore open a full review of your underlying assumptions…..

    Bushie did…!!


  2. @ Bush Tea.!
    You have a strange way of interpreting the Bible. I have hear seen and read it all but yours take the cake.Do you understand the reason for why Jesus use parables ?and to whom the messages were for?


  3. @ ac
    Woman why you don’t ease up on the bushman doh? you looking for a bush bath or wuh?

    Long ago on BU, Bushie admitted to being one of BBE boys…. um aint no secret,

    Decades ago the bushman looked in the bible and the only thing that made sense was the part that said ‘Ask and it shall be given; Seek and ye shall find; knock and the door shall be opened…..

    The knuckles raw… but um does work…..

    What proof of what existence of God you talking about now? we passed that bout 4 years ago…. even Not Saved seeing the light now…. LOL

    Just look around you….at the class engineering…. who do you think designed and built all that..? architects?!! (that is an engineering joke…) LOL


  4. @ ac
    Do you understand the reason for why Jesus use parables ?and to whom the messages were for?
    **********************************
    NOT BUSHIE Bozie!! you want Zack to put more licks in the bushman?

    But the Disciples did ask him DIRECTLY why he always spoke to the people in parables….. HIS answer was “So that they WILL NOT UNDERSTAND ME. – because it is NOT for them to get it…. but let me explain it to wanna disciples….”


  5. Our Father, which art in heaven,
    hallowed be thy name;
    thy kingdom come;
    thy will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread.
    And forgive us our trespasses,
    as we forgive them that trespass against us.
    And lead us not into temptation;
    but deliver us from evil.
    For thine is the kingdom,
    the power, and the glory,
    for ever and ever.
    Amen.


  6. Some things are easy to understand. Some are not.

    There are millions of Christians who can barely read our write so they rely on their faith in the simplistic understanding that there is a God and the basic teachings from the Bible is enough support their belief.

    Brainiacs like TMB, Zoe and Bush Tea can have their upper level discombobulated theories some of which could have value if only us lesser mortals were educated enough to understand.


  7. @ Hants
    What is your point?
    Billions of ordinary people use the internet hourly too – and they do not know squat about how it works, where the information goes; or what a protocol is….. but it is all only possible because REAL ‘brainiacs’ like CH and other techno freaks discombobulate upper level theories….

    If you want a piece of the the action – Man say so….

    By the way, let us look at the piece you posted above when Jesus was teaching his disciples how to pray…..

    Our father (the one in heaven)
    – note that he identifies them as CHILDREN of BBE

    Thy kingdom come
    – Is he teaching them to pray for the time of granny Earth’s demise? LOL

    …and for the situation on earth to be as is the case in Heaven where righteous character prevails and everyone is of one righteous mind

    Do not worry too much about accumulating ‘long term’ assets here on earth – just the essentials…
    Help us to do unto others as we expect to be done unto – and build character to accumulate out assets where it REALLY counts…

    And deliver us from evil etc

    Really a BOSS prayer….


  8. Bush Tea wrote, “If you want a piece of the the action – Man say so….”

    No thank you.

    I going and read the Advocate.


  9. David, What kind of a question is that man? Did you actually read what I said?

    Do you understand what Omniscience IS?

    @BT, Think man, think! Having created Lucifer and the Angelic Host with obvious FREE will, just like He created Adam and Eve, where THEY were given the power of CHOICE, to either Love, obey, and honour HIM, and, if they CHOOSE to do just that, THEN, there would be no disharmony, or chaos. BUT, the converse, if they CHOOSE to disobey, dishonour, and seek to be their OWN god, as Lucifer did, and likewise Adam followed, then, this up-start rebellion caused His Righteous Sovereignty to EXPELL Lucifer from Heaven, hence, he became Satan, EVIL.

    Adam, also was dispelled from the Garden, and SIN, entered the human race.

    Now, having created Lucifer with the power of CHOICE, is God, his creator responsible for the CHOICE Lucifer and Adam made, in volitionally CHOOSING to go the way and path of REBELLION?

    Choose this day, either LIFE or DEATH, Heaven or Hell as your Eternal state. Is God responsible for the CHOICES we make.

    Answer: Absolutely NOT!


  10. @Zoe

    In the context of its use the word it should be omnipotence and you know it. Maybe BT is right after all. An all encompassing being and you are saying God has no control of the space or entities create?


  11. @ Hants
    No thank you.
    I going and read the Advocate.
    **********************************
    No prob. Are you not letting down the Crumpton Street side….? LOL

    @ David
    See if you can talk some sense into Zoe on this particular matter…. Explain again for him the meaning of omnipotence….. but even without going so far -you can explain that boss engineering is about managing long term results….. he think that BBE is 3S or wuh? LOLOLOL


  12. @BT

    As you know we have discussed the purpose of our existence at length in here.

    The dogma will always clash with the practicality and the time relevance of what is written in the various religious books.

    It is the only way one can explain the significant movement of people from the biblical doctrines.

    Proponents like Zoe always seem to miss the point that to win hearts and minds the people must buy into the end result.


  13. David, You obviously do not understand the difference between God’s Omnipotence, and His Omniscience, AND particularily in the context of the discussion at hand, which IS* the FREEDOM of WILL, He created Lucifer and Adam with.

    His Omnipotence, being ALL POWERFUL, created them with the power of CHOICE. Having giving them, volitional FREE WILL, to choose, either obey or disobey, right or wrong, it was and still IS* either/or, NOT both/and!

    Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly knew what choices they would make, and FREE WILL, would not be freedom to CHOOSE, if, God then in His Omnipotence, STOPPED them in choosing to rebell against His Holy Righteous standards, as He had sovereignly given them free will.

    In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His Omniscience, He foreknew that they would choose to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility He gave them.

    David, even in your spiritually unregenerate state, and by unregenerate I mean NOT Saved, Justified, Born Again, can’t you intellectually understand this?


  14. @Zoe

    So you are saying God, his OMNI-state not withstanding, has/had no clue how these humans would end up? Is that it? Have we interpreted your last comment correctly? Trying to keep the message simple.


  15. God’s busy doing stuff.. if you want him(/her) to listen to your prayers shout loud


  16. Did Almighty God create Muderers, Atheist, Agnostics, Rapists, child molesters, tyrannical, dictatorial leaders, and the list goes on and on? Absolutely NOT!

    Or, as Divinely recorded in His Word, ALL things that He created were GOOD, very GOOD; advantageous, beneficial, propitious, desirable, suitable, appropriate, RIGHT, WHOLESOME, flawless, PERFECT, sound, unblemished, unimpaired, PLEASENT, congenial, gratifying, profitable, HEALTHFUL, WELL-FOUNDED,

    And, as a Loving, Father, He gave Adam FREE WILL, and said to him:

    “And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the garden you may FREELY eat. BUT, of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall NOT eat, for in the day (that you CHOOSE) you eat of it you shall surely DIE.” (Gen. 2: 16- 17 Emphasis added).

    Essentially, God created ALL things GOOD, for Adam, he was made PERFECT, but, with the power, to make a CHOICE, and he was forewarned by God, what would be the consequences IF* he choose to disobey.

    Now, what IS* the antithesis, the antonym, the literal OPPOSITE of ALL the GOOD, that God created for Adam to LIVE and NEVER die, if he had CHOOSEN to obey his Creator?

    EVIL, BAD, wickedness, wrong, whatever is morally unacceptable, a particular thing (as an act) this is evil, crime, iniquity, maleficence, vice, baneful, offensive, foul, hidous,

    obscene, vile, SIN, to be SINFUL, the consequence of CHOOSING to REJECT ALL of the absolute GOODNESS, that Almighty God had blessed him with.

    And Bush Tea, has the gall, the audacious temerity, the brazen impudence, to believe, with utter centempt, contray to Scripture, God’s Word, the Bible, that God created it this way, which IS tantamount to saying that God LIED, that His GOODNESS, Holiness, absolute Righteousness and Justice, are all part of this EVIL, BADNESS, and debased corruption, no wonder you are a BUSH TEA MAN, up to you ears in mystical, occultic, deception, deceitfully mixing in God’s Word, with your BBE nonsense, another deluded fool!


  17. @ BUSHMAN
    “No doubt you are aware that even some of Jesus’ disciples were expecting his intervention in the politics of the day to bring his obvious talents to the benefit of the poor, weak and oppressed of the time…. his response – I am about my father’s business…”

    I am happy that you juxtapose your response with Biblical alliteration and that somehow we can presuppose that your “CALL” or “MISSION” does bear the “DIVINE” marks of HEAVEN*…

    Not many men are that “CONFIDENT” in making such a call!!!

    Wherever the heaven-sent business takes you in your messianic ZEAL* – let that journey be one that brings light and truth to those languishing in the dark – and be also there to remind you to whom you really belong!!!

    Like JESUS* – remember the BIBLE* says that – “HE WENT ABOUT DOING GOOD!!!”

    This IMPOSSIBLE* word -“GOOD” (because ONLY* god is GOOD*) is not really a noun or an adjective but it is a “VERB” with the connotations that it is an ACTION* word which implies having to “DO” something!!!

    Bushie, the sad irony is that most of us have seen “GOODNESS” as a moral/ethical, if not mental state of being when in fact – it is what we do towards others and what our lives says about us…

    Better a sermon lived than one preached!!!


  18. It seems people have problems understanding their own faith let alone others, maybe mass praying is the way to go, or strict diet and circumcisions , or observing traditions, or believing JC was the son of man, or meditating etc. Each to his(/her) own


  19. David! David! David! Are you in your right mind, what is wrong with you David?

    I clearly, specifically, said:

    “Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly KNEW what choices (humans) would make….In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His OMNISCIENCE (All knowing David!) He FOREKNEW that they would CHOOSE to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility he gave them.”

    Against that MOST explicit, self-explanatory statement above, you, David, still come and ask me:

    “So you are saying God, his OMNI-state notwithstanding, has/had NO CLUE how these humans would end up? Is that it? Have we interpreted your last comment correctly? Trying to keep the message simple.”

    David, I really don’t know what else to say to you, how much CLEARER do you want it said, explained, articulated? Something is terribly wrong here!


  20. @ BUSHMAN (FINAL THOUGHT)

    “This is why my friend Zoe is so confused by the FACT that the GOD of the bible (BBE) took it upon themselves to actually CREATE the Devil and to build our troublesome world exactly as it is…”

    This particular thought raises eyebrows…

    Let us be cautious as to how we use terminology…

    If we accept the CREATION STORY* as a starting point in our Biblical exegesis – we must know that in the SUBLIME, OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENCE of a DREADFUL* SOVEREIGN GOD – that HE* alone knows all things… And all that HE* created was GOOD***

    If one wants to argue more LOGICALLY* that THE CREATOR GOD knew based on FOREKNOWLEDGE* that one day in ETERNITY* that there would be a MUTINY* in the PARADISE* COURTS of Heaven – the answer would be an unequivocal “YES”…

    Did HE* create SATAN, THE DEVIL* – The PERSONIFICATION* of the “EVIL” we see representative on this planet – the answer is an unequivocal “NO”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The silk thread EXEGETICAL* argument is so DIVINELY* structured that as the BIBLE rightly says – “SPIRITUAL THINGS ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED”… As human beings with a MODICUM* of FAITH*, we accept that “ALL” that God created was “GOOD”…. What was built into that GOODNESS* was FREE, MORAL AGENCY (CHOICE)!!!

    Even Lucifer* had that CHOICE – and GOD* being GOD* was willing to expose HIS THRONE* to the ultimate possibility of mutiny based on free choice because in the GRAND DIVINE SCHEME* – just as HE* could bring something out of nothing – HE* could make “ALL THINGS (the good, bad & ugly) work together for the GOOD* to them that LOVE* HIM and are called according to HIS* purpose…

    So for 6000 years SIN*, MAYHEM, EVIL and all it attendant machinations has been felt, seen and experienced by all the inhabitants on planet earth as well as those in the other UNFALLEN* worlds (the other sons* of God) for them to see the end-results of EVIL* and the PRICE* it took to pay off the DIVINE DEBT* – the DEATH* of Jesus Christ!!!

    Most are still trying to figure how GOD* could become a MAN* and die to pay a price that no one else could pay…. it is a MYSTERY* that we will spend ETERNITY* trying to fathom… What we accept by FAITH* is that the PLAN* to redeem humanity was not a reaction to man’s FALL* but was a BLUEPRINT* made even before the foundations of the world was laid!!!

    From that vantage point, we can all surmise a ton of questions – all of them starting with (WHY?)…

    Needless to say, God promised us that one day, HE* will answer all our questions… Meantime, we have all the time to banter, speculate, interpret, philosophize, conjecture and debate until the final sun goes down – the ULTIMATE TRUTH* will be unraveled if we trust that GOD* has a great plan for all of us if we are willing to accept the FREE* gift of salvation!!!

    Trust me, I have my own questions!!!


  21. the rich man got all the talk and the poor man got none at all


  22. @ HANTS
    “Brainiacs like TMB, Zoe and Bush Tea can have their upper level discombobulated theories some of which could have value if only us lesser mortals were educated enough to understand…”

    LMBO….

    Hants you love to stir the pot!!!

    My question to you is this – “WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE?”

    None of us (at least not your humble servant) has a PATENT* on the TRUTH*, the whole TRUTH* and nothing but the TRUTH*, so help me GOD!!!

    The inspired Scriptures was given to us (just like a text book at school) – well maybe a bad analogy but for the sake of argument let’s go with the strand of thought and somehow we had to employ all of the “TAUGHT” literary techniques to unpack, unravel & decipher what was being said or being alluded to in the TEXT***

    DOES NOT THE SAME THING APPLY IN THESE DISCOURSES?

    Yes, you may be right to say that there are some (as you remarked) -DISCOMBOBULATED* theories here and there but is that not the nature of the exercise? If we all came to the TABLE* with an open-mind to discuss (better word – REASON*) together – could it be possible that we would discover a deeper level of TRUTH* than when we first began?


  23. Thanks for your patience Zoe.


  24. didn’t that guy yeshua preach peace and tolerance for others without fussing and fighting, salvation for all races etc


  25. Let it be known, that the Almighty God, Creator of Heaven and Earth, HAS revealed HIMSELF, in HIS* VERY NAME(s), which specifically convey His very Nature and Being and Characteristics , by His many and various Names, and, especially in THE NAME which IS* above “every Name that is Named, not only in this world, but also in that world which is to come.” (The LORD JESUS CHRIST) (Eph. 1:21)

    THE NAMES OF GOD.

    One of the riches fields of revelation which God has given concerning His own being IS* that which pertains to the names of God. A name in Scripture is often significant of the nature of a person, whether the name be of angels, men or God. The Hebrews say of God and His name, “Himself is His Name, and His Name is Himself.”

    The names of God are basically divided into two groups; Creatorship (or Elohistic), and Redemptive (or Jehovahistic) names, found throughout His Word, the Bible.

    His names, and the NAME of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, have and carry deep and profound significance of meaning, that’s why Elohim- Plurality of divine Persons, is USED* about 2,500 times in the Old Testament (Genesis 1:1) Used of the truine God [Exodus 3″1-6, 15) Used also of the FULNESS* of the Godhead in the Son (Psalm 45:2,6).

    JEHOVAH-JEHOSHUA-CHRISTOS – The LORD JESUS CHRIST, or Jehovah’s Savior Anointed. ( Matthew 1:21; Acts 2:34-36; Eph. 1:20-21; Luke 2:11, 26,27).

    The NAME* of the LORD JESUS CHRIST IS* the greatest Redemptive NAME* ever to be revealed, because IT* comprehends in a Truine Name* ALL the compound Names of Jehovah. It IS* in the Name and Person of the LORD JESUS CHRIST, that God meets every need of man IN* redemptive POWER*. The LORD JESUS CHRIST IS* God’s ordained Redeemer and ALL* Old Testaments Names point to and find their ultimate consummation in HIS* Redemptive Name. It IS* the Name of the Godhead bodily. It IS* a Truine Name for the Truine GOD. (Col. 1:19; 2:9; Matt. 28: 10-20).

    As in the plan of Redemption, it has pleased the Father that ALL* the FULNESS* dwell in the Son, so it also has pleased the Father that the FULNESS* of the Divine Godhead Name, dwell in the Son. All Redemptive Names, are thus comprehended IN* this Triune Redemptive Name, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! (The Foundations of Christian Doctrine, pp. 68, 70).

    Nowhere in His Word, the Bible do ever find any such abstract term, like ‘Big Boss Engineer’ or any other such like humanistic foolishness, If anyone who claims to KNOW HIM, Jehovah (Yahweh, or Lord) -” I AM THAT I AM “(Exod. 3:14-15) “I
    WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE” The Self-Existent One, who has revealed Himself, IN* The Lord Jesus Christ, the Living, Resurrected, Ascended, Savior, LORD OF LORDS, and KING OF KINGS, God of very God, and fails to IDENTIFY HIM* by His Revealed NAME,
    that person(s) needs to be Saved, Justified, Born Again!


  26. @Zoe in ref. to the name of God or anyone else
    In Matthew 28:19, Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Yet, when I read the book of acts, the disciples baptized people every time saying: in Jesus name!
    What is the name of God?


  27. @Zoe ‘“Now, His Omniscience, ALL KNOWING everything, clearly KNEW what choices (humans) would make….In His Omnipotence He created them as free will moral agents, NOT robots. In His OMNISCIENCE (All knowing David!) He FOREKNEW that they would CHOOSE to rebel, which choice bearing responsibility he gave them.”

    So, if we take this statement as is, then God knew that humans would ‘sin’ (if we call their actions that and not part of ‘life’), as he already knew what their choice would be, therefore he accepted that sin would be part of his creation and intended it so, if not he would not have continued….

    N’est pas?

    I am just playing ‘Devil’s Advocate’ here (pun possibly intended).


  28. Sin ‘1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
    2. Theology
    a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God.
    b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience.
    3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong.
    ——-

    If we take the first definition, sin is purely a ‘listed’ transgression, thus in reality a judgement, subjective.

    If we take the second, how can one be disobedient, if God is omniscient, knowing that one would sin? Therefore in the creation he accepted thus?

    If we take the third, again this is subjective, dependent on social mores, accepted behaviours of society.


  29. Everything we do starts with a thought that is derived from a consciousness that we hold at that moment. Our consciousness is a vessel that attracts the thoughts. From the highest level through a process, the light goes all the way down. This is where the potential light awaits action to be released and manifested.

    We may have negative thoughts and wish to pursue them. The light fills the channel.If we bring the negative thoughts into actions, the light is released from the channel to the vessel but no continuation from the upper light. The channel is drained and it feels void and emptiness.

    The presence of the negative side in every thought and action is a must have for our process and the free choice. When we lose to the negative side, we feel drained and empty. The Spiritual laws are to keep us in balance and connect us to the flow of light. We have the laws of “Do”s to increase the ability to receive light and the “Don’t”s to avoid losing it. The foundation is “10 commandments” that expand to DOs and Don’ts.

    The highest level of restriction is at the thought level. If a negative thought ‘pops’ into your mind, stop it right there before it develops and turns into action. You may get the energy to act upon it but the final result is always the same. Down and empty.


  30. A bit more re THE NAMES OF GOD, as given in His Word, the Bible.

    A. Creatorship or Elohistic Names of God.

    The Elohistic names of God are those names which have to do with the relationship of God with His creation or creatures. The name “El” signifies “to be strong, powerful or mighty.” “Elohim” is the plural of “El” and speaks of plurality of divine Persons in the Godhead. El signifies the object of worshio, rather than a divine name.

    When the name :El” is used as a compound name, it is generally associated or used to show some power or attribute of God in relation to His creation or creatures.

    Following is the general list of Elohistic Names.

    1. El – “to be strong, powerful, mighty.” It is in the singular. It is used of Father, Son and
    Holy Spirit.

    The Father is El. (Genesis 14: 18-22)
    The Son is El. (Isaiah 7:14) Immanu-El (Isa. 9:6-9)
    The Holy Spirit is El. (Job 33:4; 37:10).

    2. Elohim -Plurality of divine Persons. Used about 2,500 times in the Old Testament.
    (Genesis 1:1) Used of the Truine God. (Exo. 3:1-6; 15). Used also of the Fulness of
    the Godhead in the Son. (Psa. 45: 2,6).

    3. El-Elyon – The Most High God (Gen. 14:6)
    4. El-Roi – The God that sees. (Gen 16: 13-14) Omniscience.
    5. El-Shaddai- God Almighty, God All-Sufficient. (Gen. 17:1).
    6. El-Olam – God, the Everlasting. (Gen. 21:33) Eternity of Being.
    7. El-Beth-El – God of the house of God. (Gen. 31: 13; 35:7).
    8. El-Elohe-Israel – God, the God of the Prince of God. (Gen. 33:20).
    9. Eloah – the One God. (Deut. 32:15; Dan. 2:11)
    10. El-Gibbor- The mighty or great God. (Isa. 9:6; Jer. 32:18-19).
    11. Elohim-Saboath – God of Hosts. (Psa. 91:1-2, 78:56).
    12. Elohim-Elyon – God, the Most High. (Psa. 91:2; 78:56).
    13. Adon or Adonai – Master, Owner or Masters, Owners, Ruler of all. (Psa. 147: 5; 86:
    12).
    14. Immanu-El – God with us. (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:21-23;). God made flesh. the Incarnate
    Logos. ( John 1: 1-3; 14-18).

    A bit later, I’ll give the Redemptive or Jehovahistic Names of God.


  31. And God said everything is Good! Howeverthis same God has found it necessary to grow two trees in the Garden 1 of Good and one of EVIL. Is n’t this the same God who says everthing was “GOOD” so then why spoil the GOOD with growing a Tree of EVil.What was he thinking Zoe or TB


  32. Then again an “”ALL KNOWING GOD”” would have known the Adam and Eve would have been disobedient. So where is the free will. After all the first temptation was in telling them not to eat the fruit.


  33. “Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites ….. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!”
    *********************************************

    @ Zoe
    …do you even have the ability (not to mention the humility and grace) to enter any kind of discussion without seeming to have to resort to insults and invective..?

    Have you ever had a good look at the manner in which Jesus dealt with those who questioned his theology? …. no wonder you are so supportive of the Israeli approach to showing love to their Palestinian neighbors.

    Now you are asked a simple, clear question about the creation of the Devil and the Bushman’s position is genuinely presented – i.e. that since the CREATOR of EVERYTHING that exists also happens to be able to see well beyond our limited field of vision – and would have OBVIOUSLY KNOWN from the outset that the Devil, and evil, and pain and dishonesty etc would have become a part of that creation, it means that:

    1 – This was the original intent and would have been classified as ‘GOOD’ by that very creator
    or
    2 – The creator is not in full control of the creation and matters have now moved beyond his intended scope
    or
    3 – The bible misrepresented the creator’s assessment that all was ‘GOOD’

    Your argument that God created all the things that you consider ‘good’, but have no responsibility for those things you consider ‘bad’, is both illogical and juvenile…. and your ATTITUDE in arguing that position is unbecoming of an educated person.

    Unlike BUDAVID, the Bushman will not ‘thank you for your patience’ but will rather recommend that you reflect on the need for such arrogance in defending the truth of the omnipotent Creator – Believe me, that truth can stand on its own.


  34. @ Crusoe

    Very sound and logical analysis in the bushman’s humble opinion. We can learn quite a bit from this apparent dilemma:

    First let us look at the definition of ‘GOOD’
    Just like you demonstrated for the word ‘sin’, the concept of ‘good’ is a relative one. GOOD does NOT mean ‘nice’ as Zoe seem to think.
    GOOD is that which supports the achievement of the intended results.
    A particular action can therefore be ‘good’ in one circumstance and THAT SAME action can be bad (or sin) in a different situation.

    When BBE conceptualized their plans and set out their objectives, THEY would have prescribed the kinds of actions, behaviors and procedures that would have supported THEIR INTENTIONS. Such actions, behaviors etc would by default become GOOD.
    On the other hand, actions, behaviors etc which produced CONTRARY results to those intended would be BAD (or sinful) by definition….(even if they are nice nice LOL)

    Simple so far one would think….

    Now who is to say that evil and pain and stress etc are not critical tools in achieving BBE’s intended objectives? Can diamonds be made without heat and stress and pressure?

    THEREFORE, the WHOLE of life’s experiences( including Satan) may well be GOOD for the achievement of the Creator’s objective – and hence, on assessing his creation, someone who UNDERSTANDS the above WOULD comment that the creation is indeed VERY GOOD and exactly suitable for its intended purpose.

    …..this is not even one of the more complex aspects of BBE’s design….. LOL


  35. of interest..
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.”

    Explained: From the very start of the project ‘Life on Earth’ that particular BBE who led in the creation of our world was a full part of the BBE family.

    “All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made, that was made.”

    Explained: EVERYTHING in existence was made through ‘The Word’ …..

    “In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.”

    Explained: HE is the source of all life, and he, by his sacrifice, have provided the light which could lead mankind to the TRUE life (over and above the temporary mortal existence on Earth)

    ….but despite that light being fully turned on in the darkness of man’s ignorance, we are UNABLE to comprehend the gospel of light of of life…..
    *********************************************
    BTW…
    If Zoe was correct, this should now be amended to read:
    All GOOD things were made through him, and without him the BAD THINGS LATER CAME INTO EXISTENCE, but nothing BAD that exists was made through him.
    LOL


  36. @ Bush Tea, “Woe to those who call EVIL* GOOD, and GOOD* EVIL, Who put DARKNESS for LIGHT, and LIGHT for DARKNESS, Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.” ( Isa. 5:20 Emphasis added).

    “Your argument that God created all things that YOU CONSIDER GOOD,,,” Emphasis added.

    Listen Bush Man, STOP twisting and perverting what I never said, and further, STOP being so contemptuous towards God’s Word!

    I NEVER made any statements re what I CONSIDER GOOD, NO! NO! I simply quoted HIS* Word, what HE said in His in Word. “And God saw that it WAS GOOD.” (Gen. 1:25) and in other veres in Genesis regarding His creation.

    “…but have no responsibility for those things you consider “bad” is both illogical and juvenile.”

    Again, it IS not what I consider bad, it is what He deems to be bad, evil, and those, Satan
    the False Prophet, the Beast, and ALL those human being who have REJECTED God’s universal offer of forgiveness of their SINS, through the Lord Jesus Christ, will BE put in the Lake of Fire, for ever and ever, BECAUSE they CHOOSE, by Free Will, NOT God’s design and purpose, to rebel against Him, therefore HE has taken full responsibility in His Sovereign Righteousness, Holiness, and Justice, to condemn ALL who have choosen NOT to want His Peace, Joy, and Gift of Eternal Life in Christ Jesus.

    Did God create it to be this way, NO, He did not, what is not been taken into account, is His Sovereignty, AND, Human responsibility, which involes FREE WILL moral agents!.


  37. “All things were made through him, and without him, nothing was made, that was made.”
    ***************************************
    Are you saying that this is wrong Mr Zoe?


  38. All things in the universe are in a constant state of agitation; that is they are vibrating at various frequencies. Some of these frequencies are slow and therefore form a dense, visible object, others vibrate at incredible speeds that we cannot see or touch. Think of the invisible radio frequencies that permeate solid objects and that we can unscramble to understand a radio message.
    Perhaps what we call God is the universal frequency from which all other frequencies are derived and gain their form or lack thereof. The point is, does this scientifically provable theory have a tangible purpose or is it just a random event to which we have given a name and built religions around?

    This is where I think humans come in. We are, as far as can be ascertained the only beings that can alter our frequencies to some lesser or greater degree. Some do it by meditation, others by prayer, respiration and many other means.

    All the frequencies interact at some level,; we are like transmitters and receivers and most of us appreciate the influence our vibes can have on others and ourselves (including our physical health and mental well being). What many have not begun to understand is how our concentrated, united thoughts and frequencies can affect everything else around us in a positive, i.e good way, or negatively.

    Good is simply that which leads to the harmonious interaction with the various frequencies around us and within us all. Love is a key to this harmony, recognising the similarity of the frequency of every human, is the key to love, Realising that our will or thoughts is the lock which the key fits and that each time we utilise our thoughts and will to unlock a door within our awareness of our joint frequency (do good) we get closer to the goal.

    When we have achieved that level of harmonious vibration we will be one with all creation.

    Bit of a long post.

    There is much more to the theory if any of it makes sense holla back.

    Peace


  39. Bush Tea are you saying is God communicates through musical vibrations? are some musicians Gods prophets ?

    Zoe can you part the red sea ? do you know all 72 names of god ?


  40. 72 names of God???
    Jesus said to baptize ” in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” not in the names…what is THAT name?


  41. 72 names is kaballah stuff its supposed to give you super duper powers
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Judaism
    http://dailyzohar.com/


  42. but it is better to concentrate on your own faith in your own way
    rather than pick n mix different faiths like fashion

  43. Straight talk Avatar

    To agree with Maat;

    Until we realise that each perception of reality is as much a definition of the individual as of his observation, we will be mired in these circular arguments about what is truth.

    To believe what we see is a naive reality, as each person has his own peculiar vantage point from which he personally constructs his whole universe, and so it follows everyone is speaking the truth – albeit as they interpret it through their own senses (“vibrations”).

    The ignorance, bigotry and superstition apparent in this blog is a demonstration of how this naive reality is destructive, causing racism, religious and political infighting, and ultimately war.

    Acceptance of other perceptions without rancour is the path to harmony …and

    Peace


  44. God sees that everything is GOOD but yet sets out to test Adam and Eve with an Evil Tree. Where is the logic in that.If everything is GOOD why not let it remain. The revelation is man have stamped their footprint on GOD and itis NOT GOOD


  45. @ Bush Tea, Come now man, let’s reason, rationally, logically.

    Yes, “All things were made through HIM ( the Logos, Jesus), and without Him nothing was made that was made.” (John 1:3, cf. Col. 1:16-18).

    The salient, entirely Biblically revealed point, FACT, IS* that these “ALL things” that were created through Him, were GOOD, every last ONE of them, including Lucifer, the Angelic Hosts, and His prize creation of all, Adam, for He DID NOT EVER Create anything BAD, or EVIL. The entire spectrum of ALL created things were GOOD.

    BT, what you stubbornly refuse to deal with, is what happened AFTER the FACT, of ALL things were created GOOD; without a stain of BAD or EVIL in any of them, but, that HE created them with FREE WILL, which He did not have to do, He could have created ROBOTS, forced to love and obey Him, that, however, would not have being a Loving God, but a tyrrant, He therefore gave them ALL a choice to make, the consequences of which, either way, would have eternal ramifications, either, JOY, PEACE, NO PAIN, NO SUFFERING, NO DEATH, and eternal fellowship with Him, beyond anything our finite minds can comprehend. OR, PAIN, SUFFERING, HEART ACHE, WARS, etc, etc, DEATH, both physically and spiritually, in Everlasting misery and torment.

    The absence of God’s LOVE, is HATE, the absence of God’s LIGHT, is DARKNESS, the absence of God’s PEACE, is TERROR, and so on, Hell IS* the literal absence of ALL that Almighty God IS* that’s why it is HELL.

    BT, you continue to obstinately deny the fact, that God did NOT Create anything BAD, or Evil, which IS* inherently, contray to His revealed attributes, Holiness, Righteousness, Justice, etc, etc, for IN* Him, “…there is NO variation or shadow of turning…” (James 1:17b) from His absolutes, which ARE* eternally consistent with His Nature and Characteristics,

    Now, He says, For My thoughts are NOT your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways., And My thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isa. 55: 8,9).

    Again we read of HIM: “Ascribe greatness to our God. He is the Rock, His WORK IS* PERFECT* For ALL His ways are justice. A God of TRUTH* and without injustice; Righteous and UPRIGHT IS* He.” (Deut. 32: 4).

    “The LORD IS* righteous in ALL* His ways, Gracious in ALL His works.” (Psa. 145: 17)

    You cannot ascribe anything Bad or Evil to Him, as He NEVER created any such thing.
    The consequences of engaging their FREE WILL that He created them with, to choose to DO BAD and EVIL, is NOT His doing at ALL.

    Now, because He is Almighty God, He can then use any perversion of His Holy, Righteous ways, and bring about GOOD (again!) to and for His eternal purposes, which He has obviously done, since Lucifer, Adam and us ALL have SINNED against Him.


  46. @Geraldine, Yes, the baptismal command given by Jesus in Matt. 28: 19, “ALL authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of ALL the nations, baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe ALL things I have commanded you, and lo, I AM with you ALWAYS, even to the end of the age.” ( Matt. 28: 18-20).

    First observation, here is one of the discourses that so plainly, and emphatically show forth, and confirm the ‘Trinity’ that IS* the three distinct, yet inseperable, Co-eternal, Co-existent, and Co-equal, Persons of the Godhead.

    Secondly, note carefully, that ‘the’ definite article, preceeds EACH ONE of the THREE Persons of the Godhead, ‘….of THE FATHER, and of THE SON, and of THE HOLY SPIRIT.”

    Thirdly, and it IS* imperative to recognize, that the ‘NAME’ singular is specifically used, and NOT ‘names’ as if it were ‘names’ instead of ‘IN the NAME’ that would imply ‘tritheism’ three Gods, NO!NO!NO!, It IS* One Eternal, Co-equal Godhead, yes, a mystery, cannot be fathomed our properly grasped by our finite minds, BUT, to be accepted and received by faith, as it IS revealed in His Word the Bible.

    And, last but by no means least, the NAME* that IS* above every other NAME, the greatest compound Redemptive NAME* of Jehovah, ever revealed IS* THE LORD
    JESUS CHRIST!

    Don’t try to figure it out, it will send you MAD, leave it to the Godhead, just receive it, like a little child, in simple FAITH.


  47. …….’Don’t try to figure it out, it will send you MAD, leave it to the Godhead, just receive it, like a little child, in simple FAITH.’

    Truer words have never been spoken !!! 😉


  48. The Bible says that we can understand the Godhead:
    “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, EVEN HIS eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse”. Romans 1:20
    “Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God is one LORD” Deut. 6:4
    I am leaving the island this afternoon, I wish we could continue….


  49. @ AC

    “And God said everything is Good! However this same God has found it necessary to grow two trees in the Garden 1 of Good and one of EVIL. Is n’t this the same God who says everything was “GOOD” so then why spoil the GOOD with growing a Tree of (good) & EVil.What was he thinking Zoe or TB…”

    POWERFUL ???

    Why did God choose the knowledge of good and evil?

    Since everything else God planted in the garden was GOOD*, the natural choice of something to choose from would be the knowledge of evil…
    YOU SEE LUCIFER HAD ALREADY CAUSED MUTINY IN PARADISE & WAS SET TO WIELD HIS DIABOLICAL AXE* OF DECEPTION WITH OUR 1ST PARENTS – SO THE CREATOR GOD MADE THEM AWARE OF WHAT THEY FACED FROM THIS SUBTLE ENEMY!!!

    God’s plan for Adam and Eve was to enjoy each other and their fellowship with Him without the influence of evil. God did not want Adam and Eve to experience evil or even know about it. However, Satan had already rebelled against God and then tempted Eve to join him in rebellion against God.

    Satan used the oldest ploy in his playbook of deceit – God is a cosmic killjoy who is trying to keep something good from you.

    Satan first asked Eve about the “TREE” from which they were told not to eat. Eve told Satan they were not to eat of the forbidden fruit or they would die. Satan’s reply indicated that God was a liar and that He just wanted to keep something good (the fruit) from them, saying, “God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    So, Adam and Eve gained knowledge of the difference between good and evil through direct experience, instead of through instruction by God.

    The text suggests that Adam and Eve had enjoyed daily walks with God through the garden prior to their fall (Genesis 3:8).

    The knowledge of evil brought fear and shame to Adam and Eve (Genesis 3:10). So, the knowledge of good and evil was not a good thing, since it ruined their innocent relationship with God and each other.

    (CF. God & Science)

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