Cynthia McKinney, in Tripoli (Repost)

 While serving on the House International Relations Committee from 1993 to 2003, it became clear to me that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) was an anachronism.  Founded in 1945 at the end of World War II, NATO was founded by the United States in response to the Soviet Union’s survival as a Communist state.  NATO was the U.S. insurance policy that capitalist ownership and domination of European, Asian, and African economies would continue.  This also would ensure the survival of the then-extant global apartheid.

NATO is a collective security pact wherein member states pledge that an attack upon one is an attack against all.  Therefore, should the Soviet Union have attacked any European Member State, the United States military shield would be activated.  The Soviet Response was the Warsaw Pact that maintained a “cordon sanitaire” around the Russian Heartland should NATO ever attack.  Thus, the world was broken into blocs which gave rise to the “Cold War.”

Avowed “Cold Warriors” of today still view the world in these terms and, unfortunately, cannot move past Communist China and an amputated Soviet Empire as enemy states of the U.S. whose moves any where on the planet are to be contested.  The collapse of the Soviet Union provided an accelerated opportunity to exert U.S. hegemony in an area of previous Russian influence.  Africa and the Eurasian landmass containing former Soviet satellite states and Afghanistan and Pakistan along with the many other “stans” of the region, have always factored prominently in the theories of “containment” or “rollback” guiding U.S. policy up to today.

With that as background, last night’s NATO rocket attack on Tripoli is inexplicable.  A civilian metropolitan area of around 2 million people, Tripoli sustained 22 to 25 bombings last night, rattling and breaking windows and glass and shaking the foundation of my hotel.

I left my room at the Rexis Al Nasr Hotel and walked outside the hotel and I could smell the exploded bombs. There were local people everywhere milling with foreign journalists from around the world. As we stood there more bombs struck around the city. The sky flashed red with explosions and more rockets from NATO jets cut through low cloud before exploding.

I could taste the thick dust stirred up by the exploded bombs. I immediately thought about the depleted uranium munitions reportedly being used here–along with white phosphorus.  If depleted uranium weapons were being used what affect on the local civilians?

Women carrying young children ran out of the hotel. Others ran to wash the dust from their eyes.  With sirens blaring, emergency vehicles made their way to the scene of the attack.  Car alarms, set off by the repeated blasts, could be heard underneath the defiant chants of the people.

Sporadic gunfire broke out and it seemed everywhere around me.  Euronews showed video of nurses and doctors chanting even at the hospitals as they treated those injured from NATO’s latest installation of shock and awe.  Suddenly, the streets around my hotel became full of chanting people, car horns blowing, I could not tell how many were walking, how many were driving.  Inside the hotel, one Libyan woman carrying a baby came to me and asked me why are they doing this to us?

Whatever the military objectives of the attack (and I and many others question the military value of these attacks) the fact remains the air attack was launched a major city packed with hundreds of thousands of civilians.

I did wonder too if the any of the politicians who had authorized this air attack had themselves ever been on the receiving end of laser guided depleted uranium munitions. Had they ever seen the awful damage that these weapons do a city and its population? Perhaps if they actually been in the city of air attack and felt the concussion from these bombs and saw the mayhem caused they just might not be so inclined to authorize an attack on a civilian population.

I am confident that NATO would not have been so reckless with human life if they had called on to attack a major western city. Indeed, I am confident that would not be called upon ever to attack a western city. NATO only attacks (as does the US and its allies) the poor and underprivileged of the 3rd world.

Only the day before, at a women’s event in Tripoli, one woman came up to me with tears in her eyes:  her mother is in Benghazi and she can’t get back to see if her mother is OK or not.  People from the east and west of the country lived with each other, loved each other, intermarried, and now, because of NATO’s “humanitarian intervention,” artificial divisions are becoming hardened.  NATO’s recruitment of allies in eastern Libya smacks of the same strain of cold warriorism that sought to assassinate Fidel Castro and overthrow the Cuban Revolution with “homegrown” Cubans willing to commit acts of terror against their former home country.  More recently, Democratic Republic of Congo has been amputated de facto after Laurent Kabila refused a request from the Clinton Administration to formally shave off the eastern part of his country.  Laurent Kabila personally recounted the meeting at which this request and refusal were delivered.  This plan to balkanize and amputate an African country (as has been done in Sudan) did not work because Kabila said “no” while Congolese around the world organized to protect the “territorial integrity” of their country.

I was horrified to learn that NATO allies (the Rebels) in Libya have reportedly lynched, butchered and then their darker-skinned compatriots after U.S. press reports labeled Black Libyans as “Black mercenaries.”  Now, tell me this, pray tell.  How are you going to take Blacks out of Africa?  Press reports have suggested that Americans were “surprised” to see dark-skinned people in Africa.  Now, what does that tell us about them?

The sad fact, however, is that it is the Libyans themselves, who have been insulted, terrorized, lynched, and murdered as a result of the press reports that hyper-sensationalized this base ignorance.  Who will be held accountable for the lives lost in the bloodletting frenzy unleashed as a result of these lies?

Which brings me back to the lady’s question:  why is this happening?  Honestly, I could not give her the educated reasoned response that she was looking for.  In my view the international public is struggling to answer “Why?”.

What we do know, and what is quite clear, is this:  what I experienced last night is no “humanitarian intervention.”

Many suspect it is about all the oil under Libya. Call me skeptical but I have to wonder why the combined armed sea, land and air forces of NATO and the US costing billions of dollars are being arraigned against a relatively small North African country and we’re expected to believe its in the defense of democracy.

What I have seen in long lines to get fuel is not “humanitarian intervention.”  Refusal to allow purchases of medicine for the hospitals is not “humanitarian intervention.”  What is most sad is that I cannot give a cogent explanation of why to people now terrified by NATO’s bombs, but it is transparently clear now that NATO has exceeded its mandate, lied about its intentions, is guilty of extra-judicial killings–all in the name of “humanitarian intervention.”  Where is the Congress as the President exceeds his war-making authority?  Where is the “Conscience of the Congress?”

For those of who disagree with Dick Cheney’s warning to us to prepare for war for the next generation, please support any one who will stop this madness.  Please organize and then vote for peace.  People around the world need us to stand up and speak out for ourselves and them because  Iran and Venezuela are also in the cross-hairs.  Libyans don’t need NATO helicopter gunships, smart bombs, cruise missiles, and depleted uranium to settle their differences.  NATO’s “humanitarian intervention” needs to be exposed for what it is with the bright, shining light of the truth.

As dusk descends on Tripoli, let me prepare myself with the local civilian population for some more NATO humanitarianism.

Stop bombing Africa and the poor of the world!

201 responses to “A Feast Of Blood For NATO Last Night”


  1. Understood Sarge was yanking your chain a little BU is onside with Crusoe’s argument. The foreign policy of the main actors is built on sand.


  2. @Crusoe

    I have news for you, prior to the start of these hostilities some of those nations were already in Libya enjoying the fruits of the country’s wealth i.e. The French,British,Russians,Americans and Chinese (the Chinese are everywhere) as for Africa yes Africans were there but mainly as labourers (yes they get to do the grunt work).

    Do you know where Libya’s ruling elite invested a significant portion of the country’s wealth? They have a fund called the Sovereign Wealth fund (not that the average Libyan benefits from it) but it was invested in Western Financial Institutions which managed to lose their shirts in the last financial meltdown.

    Your premise that Western Nations will benefit post Gadaffi means zilch, they were benefiting with Gadaffi.

    Re Pakistan: The Americans are fighting a war in Afghanistan and their supply line runs through Pakistan, what do you want them to do? Anger the Pakistanis more by accusing them at a high level of complicity in the harbouring of Bin Laden? That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    Pakistan is also a nuclear power and they want to preserve some kind of stability in the area, the last thing the world needs is a nuclear confrontation between Pakistan and India. In addition the US wants to keep close tabs on Pakistan they want to ensure that another AQ Khan (you can google him) does not feel aggrieved by US actions and provides nuclear technology to would be terrorists.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/41754177/Libya_Placed_Billions_of_Dollars_at_US_Banks_WikiLeaks

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8fc046c4-870e-11e0-92df-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss


  3. It always amazes me, the way educated people always look to justify wrongs.
    The double standards are glaring, the contradictions are numerous.
    Wrong is Wrong, end of story!!


  4. “in for a penny in for a pound’ If they left him in power his gonads would fill the whole of North Africa and give him unprecedented power and prestige”

    See what I mean Sarge? You ain’ mekkin’ it easy atall atall, you still is a half a’ idiot, causen dey is no such thing as a t’ree quarter idiot … not dat I hear ’bout yet!


  5. @BAFBFP: “Would you like to have a conversation with the Tutchonekutchin and Hydah and others, or are these people considered insurgents when they demonstrate?

    I am very proud to be a Canadian / Barbadian.

    Please do note that the Government of Canada (and the Government of Australia) officially apologized to their indigenous peoples who were displaced because of our “invasion”.

    This has had significant legal ramifications…

    Has the Great US of A done so?

    Has Britain?

    Has France?

    Has Germany?


  6. Some writers here dont seem to see the rather GLARING difference between DICTATORSHIP and democracy. Most Bajans have lived in probably one of the World’s most democratic countries. When the populace turned on the BLP, they were GONE! No one lost their life, afterall this is NOT JA where 1000+ lives lost during elections is commonplace.

    The West is in a NO WIN position because if they continue doing business with dictators they are WRONG and if they lift a fingure to help remove the said same Dictator they are WRONG! I am not condoning bombing Tripoli and I am not suggesting current methods of engagement are acceptable. Also, it is possible that although there has been uprising in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain,Syria etc that maybe the situation in Libya is being treated differently by the West due to oil or other reasons. The point is there is uprising all over the region NOT just Libya. WHY?

    Simple, the people of this region typically have about $2 a day to live on and $1 of that is for food, however grin prices are up big so their food cost is now $1.50 BUT they have not had a raise in pay.
    Its about FOOD INFLATION! Dont bother to blame the West for drought in Russia, China etc.

    The question of supposedly civilised Western Nations turning guns on their own peeps versus dictatorships is somewhat lopsided.
    Dictatorships are faster to kill their own people and much higher percentages of their populations, crowds etc. There can be no worthwhile comparison. In a democracy, the people have a right to express their opinion, protest march, strikes etc. Once this is conducted peacefully then that should be acceptable. However, if the crowd becomes violent then the Govt forces have the right to warn and then discipline the transgressors in order to protect the innocent (often majority), citizens property, Govt infracstructure.
    Even in normally law abiding ,peaceful, rich cities like Toronto you occasionally have protest groups who come armed with, sticks, stones, molitoff cocktails etc. These types should be under no illusion that a police officer who has a molitoff cocktail hurled in his direction has the right to defend himself with force, even bullets. The point is the variables are many and each case has to be judged on the detailed evidence.


  7. Both Russia and the G8 are calling for Gadaffi to go.

    Another one bites the dust, who is next?


  8. @Sargeant”Your premise that Western Nations will benefit post Gadaffi means zilch, they were benefiting with Gadaffi”

    Not so, who ‘owned’ the wealth pre ‘Gaddafi project’?

    Who will ‘own’ it after?!

    It means more than zilch, it is critical!

    Nuff said on that score!


  9. @BGI,

    I am not a classic ‘religious’ person per se, I follow what I see as an open and liberal view, I will stop that part there.

    However, if you permit me to comment on your post, technically your approach does mirror the current scenari i.e. that there are power groups working behind the scenes and even as we see, in broad barefaced daylight, to forward their OWG agenda.

    One common thread has indeed been the alienation ‘not with us you are against us’ lingo and brainwashing, forcing people to be back into a corner and think as a unit rather than as individuals or groups, hence why I am also of the view (and I believe that David is too, but he can speak for themselves), that the only way out for smaller nations is the re-creation of the Non-Aligned Movement to legitimatise their beliefs and actions.

    The controlled media has played a very important part and the ‘powers that be’ even have the power to remove others who stand in their way e.g. Ted Turner was ousted from CNN.

    At the same time, maybe even catalysing the agendas of the ‘OWG’ and other forces, is the failing market system, global decline in real value of production and collapsing economies.

    Add to this is the resources crisis, such as oil and we have a seriously dangerous recipe.

    Fortunately (or unfortunately), even complex plans and powerful bodies cannot control everything, despite best efforts.

    The current actions in the Middle East are far than just a food inflation issue, albeit that in itself is not easy.

    There appears to be a hand working, one can only surmise this plan has been in place for some time, to alter the way things are done in the Middle East.

    That in itself may be successful or become a complete blow-up.

    Nevertheless, as they say, the best plans of mice and men……


  10. ”Some writers here dont seem to see the rather GLARING difference between DICTATORSHIP and democracy”

    —-

    No, we do. However, we also make the further distinction that an ‘installed’ democracy is only a facade on not of the ‘hearts and minds of the people’ (sic).

    We also make a distinction that international policy, by international organisations, should follow a common goal and then subsequent actions based on common philosophy.

    Further, unless the above two are ‘cast in stone’, the further problem is where do we then decide between the rights of a nation and its people to national sovereignty, self determination and international ‘rights’ (sic) to lay claim to actions within that nation, in the interest of either national or international jurisdiction?

    That is the problem here.


  11. ” only a facade AND not of the ‘hearts and minds of the people’


  12. May 2011: an excellent week for the side of the angels

    A personification of evil, a mass-murdering, nihilistic, psychotic halfwit who dreamt of returning the world to the seventh century, has his psychopathic and genocidal dreams snuffed out in his own bedroom, and then his miserable remains are tossed into the sea for the algae.

    An ageing tool with the kind of followers whose utterly mindless stupidity is something you really don’t want to think about proves, yet again, that anybody who believes in supernatural goat-droppings is, basically. a delusional moron.

    A power-crazy, ageing, nut-job, psycho thug who has paid for commercial airliners and all the people on them to be blown up in-flight will soon (i) die or (ii) run away and spend the rest of his life being hunted down.

    A perpetrator of the kind of mass murder that most of us can’t even hold in our heads has been transported from the western Balkans to face the judgment of history for his psychopathic racist thuggishness.

    On balance, a pretty good month for the side of the angels.


  13. Srebrenica yah pussy …!


  14. ad hominem , dah is how you does deal wid idiots, ad hominem


  15. @Srebrenica,

    Okay..okay. But why did the ‘angels’ not go after the scumbag scumsucker who blew up the Cuban airliner off Barbados shores in the 1970’s, who resided in Florida?

    Strange that.

    What a number of us have a problem with is…who decides among the ‘angels’ as to who will be judge, jury and grand executioner’?

    And who decides the basis of right to execute or not?

    As of now, the rule of international law has been superced by the law of the jungle.

    From the time Saddam Hussein (and I hold no candle for him, but merely looking at facts), was summarily executed, the rule of international law was no longer.

    And please do not give me ‘tried by his fellow Iraqi’s’ nonsense.

    The ONLY court who can rule in such cases involving change of regimes and significant warfare, with any legitimate justification, is the Hague.

    That was ignored, brutally. When men who should know better act otherwise, all hell breaks loose. Why do you think Colin Powell resigned? He could not stomach what happened, the lies about WMD’s etc, that is my interpretation anyway.

    So, what recourse to those who disagree?

    Guerilla warfare…???? And here we get into semantics and argument about basis of warfare and the various classifications and terminology.

    I am so glad that the Almighty in charge really, not some of the nutcases about the place, who think that they actually have control.

    Hilariously, some of them do not learn.

    Just imagine, for a minute…poetic justice.

    Imagine GWB and Cheney being reincarnated as Muslim boys in Yemen.

    Dahfuhlickyuh.


  16. @Crusoe: “Imagine GWB and Cheney being reincarnated as Muslim boys in Yemen.

    That would be the ultimate in irony….


  17. BAFBFP: “ad hominem , dah is how you does deal wid idiots, ad hominem”

    ad and dat hominen wunna gin dat n dis eddoes wid dat souse lawd stupseeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! in goan do dat in dis reen wid dat murdah cutter gon lawd!!!!!!!! wid I in dat wid you souse olden daze wid you on dat ya eedjat wid you dat an dis an mo o dat, girl, lawd!!!!!!!!!!!!! wid dat an dis een da sun hot, heah steupseeee! nanas, ya got ma bawlin!!!!! heah???????? blind be bitch wid sum acid too tie down de bitch lawd!!!!!!!!!! murdah heah?????????? I in dat wid you


  18. @Srebrenica: “blind be bitch wid sum acid too tie down de bitch lawd!!!!!!!!!!

    Translation: “Blind the bitch with some acid. As well, tie down the bitch. Do!!!!!

    @Srebrenica: “murdah heah??????????

    Translation: “Murder her??????

    @Srebrenica: “I in dat wid you

    Translation: “I am in that with you

    @All… Please correct me if I’ve translated this incorrectly….


  19. @CH,

    No, you are correct. It appears that Srebrenica may have just escaped from some institution.


  20. Actually Srebrenica has tossed back a few phrases used by Bonny Peppa in earlier comments.

    You guys were doing so well discussing so why get distracted?


  21. @David: “You guys were doing so well discussing so why get distracted?

    Because we know the game.

    And know how to play it.


  22. from cnn ‘Medvedev’s call for Gadhafi to step aside came at the end of the Group of Eight summit in Deauville, France, on Friday. The G8 includes the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Canada, Japan, Germany, Italy and Russia.

    The G8 leaders also issued a written statement Friday expressing support for the democratic uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa.

    The summit leaders agree that “the regime of Gadhafi has lost its legitimacy and he must leave,” Medvedev said, according to Russia’s state-run RIA Novosti news agency. “This was decided unanimously.”

    His statement came on the heels of a request from the other G8 leaders to have the Russian leader mediate a settlement.

    Earlier, Gadhafi’s government also called for a Russian mediation, a sign that the Libyan leader may be searching for a way to bring about an end to the months-long war.”

    ——-

    So, with a mediation on the way, possibly, will the bombings stop?

    As the G8 have issued support for the ‘democratic uprisings’, is that a sign that Nato will also bomb Syria at will, after all, the Syrians are shooting their civilians at will and their Government is now no less invalid?

    Is Nato will and ready to enter the whole Middle East to ensure ‘democracy? Is it?

    I say ‘y’all playing with fire’ and do not even realise.

    Or maybe you do and do not care, because you know the world markets are going to hell in a handbasket anyway, so …’what the heck’.

    Right?

    The evangelicals are going to have a fieldday, as the ‘soldiers’ march on Babylon.

    All a bunch of nutters….politicians, generals..all.


  23. Crusoe

    Just one thing though, please stop using the word “war”. When one set of people are using satellite technology to guide man-less drones to kill people, when their manned vehicles are flying at over twenty five thousand feet in the sky (so high that effective return fire is virtually impossible) to drop bombs that can pierce concrete, when one side can declare NO casualties in this campaign, this is a cowardly massacre by an invading group of sophisticated thugs, NOT a war.


  24. Chris;

    But an apology and specialised legislation might ease your conscience, good for you, but how does redress/undo the deaths and horrible suffering that the indigenous peoples of the world have been made to endure, not to mention the third class citizenship that they are presently afforded. Shite it was only twenty years ago when the children of indigenous Canadians were being forcibly removed from their parents to be raised by White foster parents.

    How do you apologize in such a way as to make a difference to these people? “Forgive me Father for I have sinned … Tonight I cowardly stood at my computer terminal at Langley in the US and with the use of a joystick and satellite technology I maneuvered a drone to a bunker of brave soldiers who were fighting to defend their country from the likes of me. I dropped a bomb and blew these brave men to smithereens … Shite Father, you should have seen it on screen … What a rush! … But I have sinned Father, how many hail Maries should I be made to suffer this time?


  25. @BAFBFP,

    Fair enough, I have no comeback for that. When the reasons for ‘action’ become clouded and unjustifiable (not false justification), as explained above, one can only sit back and breathe and wonder how this reality is getting away from reasonable people of the world.

    It must have been similar in Germany during the war.

    Those who disagree being ostracised, by group-think. The ability to reason to a fair conclusion, being negated by designed media (as you are aware, media takes many forms).

    Ah well, as Sargeant says ”Re Pakistan: The Americans are fighting a war in Afghanistan and their supply line runs through Pakistan, what do you want them to do? Anger the Pakistanis more by accusing them at a high level of complicity in the harbouring of Bin Laden? That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.”

    His argument then, to wit ‘the end justifies the means’?

    So in Libya’s case, the spoils of war and use of Libya’s wealth to rebuild the fallen European economies will be worth it to some.

    Here is something, yes I looked it up, for some reaosn something in my subconsious stirred one or more of the words, and I got it first time on the lookup. It may stir something for the Latin scholars here.

    ‘Fide, sed qui, vide’.

    Translation…’Trust but take care whom’.

    Food for thought, that.

    Sadly and profoundly albeit rightfully, after milleniums we in mankind can only trust in One.

    In Deo Fides.


  26. The whole world is being hood winked and brainwashed[conditioned really] to accept the fuckeries that the US under O-Bomba is implementing against innocent people in oil rich countries or countries that the Elite have an interest in and the talking heads are saying it’s a great job being done..guess who wins when all your freedoms and liberties are taken away…..not you?


  27. @Crusoe

    Earlier you wrote about countries which would ostensibly benefit from a “ massive rebuilding” of Libya after this bombing. I countered by pointing out that these countries were already there and profited with Gadaffi and will profit post Gafaffi. I even provided a link that showed that a significant portion of Libya’s wealth was invested in European and North American Banks.

    You also wondered why the US would state that it is committed to a relationship with Pakistan and I brought up the fact about Pakistan is a member of the nuclear club, the US has a supply line through Pakistan in the Afghan conflict and the US wants to restrict the proliferation of the A Q Khans of the world (have you googled him yet?).

    I kept looking for a response but facts are funny things they keep staring you in the face until you finally admit that I don’t have a leg to stand on so I will try to change the subject and write about justice, The Hague; G8; the reincarnation of Cheney and GWB etc.

    It must be lonely on that desert island with your man Friday (BAFBFP) but help is on the way.

    Here is a Latin phrase to contemplate: Magna est veritas et praevalebit (truth is mighty and will prevail)


  28. @Sargeant,

    You did write about countries ‘benefiting’ from Libya and I did counter, factually, that the ownership of the assets is quite different from the management of said assets, that transfer of wealth, significant wealth, will result from this ‘Libya project.

    Yes, you also mentioned that Pakistan is a member of the nuclear club, so what? All that tells me is that you believe that the ends justify the means, that each little boy or girl with a leg blown off or a father dead is just collateral damage, because you, as the rest of the sheeples, believe the media glofiication of the ends justifying the means.

    It is not lonely being on the side of justice, of morality and what is right.

    A sole person who believes in a just cause can not be lonely, but can only be a pillar of strength amid the sheeples that follow blindly anything that they are told, until they too are chased and hunted down.

    As for changing the subject, no I really did not. If you do not see clearly that justice and the Hague are legitimate concerns in the Middle East scenario and in ANY international military action, then you really do not have a grasp of basic international law or standards let alone a sound understanding of same, which would explain your blind following of callous behaviour.

    As for the truth prevailing, I know this only too well.

    Fortunately, it is called karma and what is sowed, will be reaped in plenty.

    Thankfully, what you see as your ‘end’ as justified by your means, is never the end.

    Or unfortunately, depending how one looks at it.

    On an aside, I wonder how the jet and copter pilots sleep at night, knowing that the last missile, in all probabilities, blew some innocent apart, either a child, mother or father.

    Which is why soldiers oftentimes come back from ‘war’, raving lunatics.

    But, cigar room generals, or armchair generals like yourself, don’t bother about such things, do you?


  29. Cuh dear, I just realise.

    Sarge, yuh musse got investments in Portugal and Greece, nuh? Getting worried?

    Seee, this is why we differ in opinion, you need the ‘project’, whereas me…I is a poor man, aint got no investments, so don’t matter to my pocket directly if they crash.

    So I can be objective on foreign dictatorial policy.

    Oops…I mean foreign policy.


  30. A glass of Koolaid anyone?


  31. @Crusoe

    Why is there no concern about the thousands of people who die or imprisoned at the hands of tyrants year after year? What about the little boy or girl whose families are torn apart by the actions of dictators? Aren’t they the victims of “collateral damage” too?

    I know about the International Court of Justice but that was not the point of contention you inserted it into the argument as a red herring to derail the argument when you realized that your thesis didn’t stand up to examination.

    Another fallacy is that Generals operate a “push button” war and are immune to the suffering of others. Wars are won in the trenches so the same Generals have to send soldiers into the field and some don’t get to return, the Generals (at least in the West) have to send letters to loved ones or explain why Joe is not coming back.

    As for investments why did you leave out Spain? Man you are behind the times ( like the fictional character whose name you use) as that country is facing woes of its own too.

    However if you must know my little pittance is in North America and Barbados


  32. Come on Sarge you know full well the crux of alot of the argument is the hypocrisy.

    Why Libya and not Syria, or Saudi Arabia etc?

    Why not China which has an unenviable human rights record we are told.


  33. @BAFBFP
    Surely, judging the dropping of bombs or utilising drones from 25,000ft, critically depends firstly on whether the action is justified in the first place and secondly the degree of accuracy of hitting the correct targets without “Collateral damage”. If both variables are positive( surgical) then it should be ok. War has nothing to do with fairness or tieing one hand behind one’s back. Indeed that is exactly why the Americans lost so many lives in Vietnam. ( admittedly a totally unneccessary war since the Viets were not invading another country or agents of Russia/ china)


  34. Man David you must practice ignoring this Sarge fellow.


  35. Moneybrain

    Alright, alright, I ain’ got nuttin’ to do today so I am actually going to try (I know, I know I only wasting my time) to turn you. Let’s start …

    1. How do you define “justified action”? Now I, for the sake of argument, will concede that even threatening the life of the President of the United States of America “Verbally” merits a justifiable response by bombing tax payers properties. Are you so trusting of Western (CNN, BBC, Reuters, Fox, AP, News Week, CBC, VOB etc) media/wire reports to establish the guilt of the accused person(s) even after well documented lapses such as Lockerby, WMD’s in Iraq, Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay detention camps etc that have proved “embarrassing” to the people whose interests you seem very prepared to defend?

    BTW Moneybrain grab a hold of this
    http://bpc-world.co.uk/category/israelpalestine/


  36. @Crusoe
    Some excellent points!
    However, can you honestly say that you have all the facts?

    What is very interesting is that the refugees from this war are running to Southern Europe by the thousands, quite ironic. These people will NEVEr return to live in Nth Africa and will be a drain on European resources for years to come. Did the supposed warmongers of Europe consider this cost both financially and socially? My Maltese/ Italian friends have been living with a Nth African invasion for many years already.

    Regarding the matter of rebuilding Libyan infrastructue after hostilities cease. The revenue to be gained by Europe will not even cover a small part of the interest costs on the debt that will sink the Euro and most of the countries, certainly the peripheral bankrupts eg PIIIGS..Port, Ice, Irl,Itl,Gr, Sp. This strategy does not fly. Naturally, it maybe worthwhile as a political rallying cry for a bankrupt continent BUT it is too small to matter, unless it leads to serious War with Iran and / or larger entities, where population CULLING would be meaningful. Large scale economic/ financial probs typically lead to WAR, throughout history.


  37. @David

    Are you being provocative or don’t you understand geopolitics?

    What modern country engages in warfare at a whim?

    One dictator at a time, Assad’s time is coming you can’t keep people down indefinitely and Assad inherited the mantle of leadership from his father. Don’t forget the ME is awash with sects, religious differences (Sunni/Shia), clans, tribes etc. Assad is a member of a minority Alawite sect in Syria which controls the Gov’t and holds most of the powerful positions in the country. You can bet some of the leaders of the other sects are chafing at the bit to take him on but Assad controls the Army and has unleashed his mafia (Shabiha) to terrorize the population.

    China? Is there a popular uprising in China? Of course China’s record on human rights is nothing to write home about ( they just jailed the architect who designed the Bird’s nest stadium) but China’s policy will slowly erode with time with their embrace of Capitalism and western values.

    Sometime I’ll tell you a story about a Chinese acquaintance who was initially a victim and now is a success story within China.


  38. @BAFBFP
    Please show me where I stated that action was justified?
    I was just illustrating the conditions that would merit the use of such weaponary. You were doing a great, BUT one sided job illustrating how horrible it was NOT to be fair and indulge in hand to hand combat with blunt utensils!

    Your points on attempted mind control, sick media coverage etc is agreed. But you yourself (and many others) must be careful NOT to accept alternative coverage and opinions as gospel truth.We do live in an EVIL, COMPLEX WORLD where there are brilliant minds dedicated to causing trouble for their own profit and not for THE PROPHET.


  39. @Sarge

    Your comment has more than a semblance of logic have to admit but explain given the familial linkages to the political and power elite in the USA Cuba has been allowed to remain a fly in the ointment for so long?


  40. AlJazeera is confirming the death of Gaddafi’s battalion General in the city of Benwalid today, many other officers fleeing

    Another in bites the dust!


  41. Many contributors here appear to believe that dictators in the ME are sweet breads. Hopefully such folks are not garnering this nonsense from alternative sources. These bastards are VILE! I know that some peeps believe the US should not have gone into Iraq and the “evidence” was indeed suspect.(other reasons like Sodamninsane trying to kill Bush’s father GHW, were almost certainly part of Ws psychology) But slapping the Sunni murderers and killing the Butcher of Baghdad and his henchmen was most appropriate.

    IAMANUTJOB and the Iranian Theocrats are next in line and their time is growing short because they are too greedy and will want to invade Iraq, if the Allies are so stupid as to ever really pull out. Nutty wants Iraqi and the Saudi OIL so he Mr Meglamaniac can CONTROL THE WORLD, and he would if he had 40% of supplies.


  42. I must now attend the war at Wembley!
    Barce VS MANU. Messi must be controlled like Ghaddafi????


  43. Moneybrain Moneybrain

    First of all I will refer to your comment “…critically depends firstly on whether the action is justified in the first place and secondly the degree of accuracy of hitting the correct targets …” How the hell do you determine what is “Justified”, and who the hell determines who are the “Correct” targets? The UN? the OAS? Caricom? The NSA or CIA or the Commander In Chief of the US Army? Hillary Beckcles? God Almighty? Do these entities always speak for you and determine for you what is Right and what is Wrong? Now don’ get me vex yah …!

    Secondly, what VILE bastards are are you referring too? Pan Am that declared bankruptcy so as to avoid liability for the Lockerby Bombing? American and United Airlines, McDonald Douglas and Boeing, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, Halliburton (In fact just about every one on Wall Street past and present) for their roll in 9-11 and the collapse of the mortgage and derivative markets that have affected the lives of every Ba’badian in living memory, no matter which party in the US is in power? I mean good God man, with respect, do you actually think that by changing administrations in the US or the UK or Ba’bados that you are actually changing the true power brokers and dictators of policy? And what the fcuk has Muammar Gaddafi or Osamo Bin Laden or Manuel Noriega or Sadam Husein or Fidel Castro or Hugo Chávez or Kim Il-sung or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ever done you or any other Ba’badian (or African) for that matter?


  44. @BAFBFP

    Man David you must practice ignoring this Sarge fellow.

    ********
    Well I ain’t going away anytime soon unless after some higher power steps in and decides that my time is up, didn’t you read the anarchist’s bible which teaches one to be tolerant of other views?

    I thought some of the ideas that you spouted were your own but judging from the recent link that you posted I see that you have been reading blogs from the wild and wacky who inhabit the world wide web.
    Pssssst lemme tell you a secret some of these conspiracy nuts live in their mummy’s basement and have nothing to do except start a blog and promote their theories which the gullible will embrace.

    Are you one of those gullible? If so here is some advice give the computer to your son or daughter they may get some productive use of it, otherwise you might hurt yourself with that sharp edged tool.


  45. @BAFBFP
    I have not said at any time that the action is justified or how and who should determine legitimacy of such action. When or if ever, I am in possession of all the facts then I WILL DETERMINE for myself whether or not any action was/ is warranted and fair. I am an independent/ maverick thinker. eg I arrived late to class in LSci6 at HC to find students sitting in 2 groups seperated by a huge divide, along racial lines. I immediately found my desk and placed it dead centre of the neutral zone and proceeded to implore both sides to resume the accustomed desk positions. After having to be cussed by a few racists on both sides the masses quickly followed my lead.

    I have no doubt that there are EVILMofos in the West BUT there is significantly more freedom and a higher standard of living than in the Dictatorship plagued ME. The Syrians in the Cbean, Syria and worldwide will attest to that.

    The role of Wall St in 911?????? Suggests that you are a conspiracy theorist AND blaming Wall St for participating in 911. Firstly, there are questions that raise doubt about what the US Govt knew beforehand but since the WTC was inhabited by many investment firms, and senior people in those firms were murdered (Jews included) I certainly dont have evidence to include WS especially as they were the target. Some members of exclusive clubs like the Bilderbergs, Illuminatti etc maybe implicated as they may make alot of $$$$$$$ from arms sales.

    Regarding, the housing/ mortgage debacle many make the massive error of forgetting the role Govt played in instigating the problem. Pres Carter and all ensuing Presidents have had a policy that everyone in the US should have their own home. Sounds noble, but it is a dream that cannot and should not be implemented through normal market financing. So the Go vt played a SIGNIFICANT part by having this objective, artificially keeping interest rates down, not being active in the supervision of lenders (many lenders and brokers became more CROOKED than usual especially due to disintermediation) and much more.

    While the tyrants you refer to have not been given the opportunity to mess with my life directly, I dont have any reason to believe that they have been great leaders. Castro is probably the best and I certainly believe revolution was absolutely critical in 1950s Cuba with the mafia and US with their man Baptista wreaking havoc. Cuba like all socialist/ communist countries is a failure. (Cuba has had some medical successes like Policosanol,lowers cholestrol, which is made from the waxy substance of the sugarcane stalk et al) These countries fail because they dont accomplish minimum levels of feeding their people, employment etc. I have spent 4 holidays in various parts of Cuba and have chatted with the locals who have told me what really goes on. Besides how many peeps leave Bim or the US to travel by inner tube to Cuba? Is that info surpressed?

    I have no doubt that 99% of Bajans are better off under our system than living under any of the dictators you mentioned. Everyone in Bim can reach the top or at the very least much higher than their starting point in life. I know many that have exceeded what their very neighbours would have expected.

    Some of these meglamaniacs like Kim actually believe and brainwash their citizens that they are DIETY! Do you think that my opinion is biased by my being brainwashed?????

    Let me remind you that OBL murdered hundreds of INNOCENT AFRICANS in the bombing of the US Embassies in E Africa in 1998??? Were those scenes contrived or poor OBL framed as the mastermind??


  46. @David

    AlJazeera is confirming the death of Gaddafi’s battalion General in the city of Benwalid today, many other officers fleeing
    *********************
    That is a well worn strategy practiced in several arenas e.g. Boxing…. Joe Frazier used it against Ali in their first fight……. Attack the body and the head will fall….I was a big Ali fan and Joe used it to perfection in that first fight, so well that when the left hook came in Round 15 Ali crumbled like a load of loose marl.

    They are attacking Gadaffi’s body i.e. his coterie of Generals, advisors; hangers on all the flotsam and jetsam that pilfered from the Libyan people.. Tighten the noose slowly until……….

    Closer to home Mia is using that strategy in politics against Arthur, she is not going after Owen but she is going after his “body” … GWP….. Attack the body and the head will fall……


  47. Moneybrain

    You ain’ at Crumton Street High no more, so don’ be placing your desk down the centre of the room in an effort to play both sides ah dis one, I need you to know that I got drones targeted at you as we speak …! No one needs to be in possession of all of the facts, all that you need is a cursory appreciation of American history and its global exploits, the briefest understanding of how false flags work and why such actions are carried out, and the slightest knowledge of the RESOURCES required to pull off all of these events that have captured and maintained international attention.

    You must know that Singapore was a dictatorship, and a very repressive one at that, but that is an aside. Iraq was a very well run country under Sadam Hussein and so to is Egypt, Libya, Iran with very sophisticated health care and educational facilities as well as admirable safety nets for their nationals. Syria stood as a policing force in Lebanon for thirty years (until they were framed in the killing of a deputy PM – maybe by the same shady Syrians in the C’bean), I would think that that is a showing of supreme responsibility. ALL of the monarchies of course being friendly towards the West, are not considered with the batch of TYRANTS even tough half of their populations (women) are treated like chattel.

    Cuba is a success story. Haven ridden out the most outrageous and severe embargo to be inflicted on a country in modern times by a super power it can still hold its head high as a major commodities exporter and contributor to the world’s pool of scientists and athletes. No genuine “Democracy” could have lasted as long under the same conditions. Lift the embargo and you will see the kind of success that you believe is lacking. Place the blame where it belongs, sir!

    You call me a conspiracy theorist because I am inclined to believe that Wall Street is far more likely to involved in the 9-11 charade, but with respect being a conspiracy theorist is nothing unusual or indeed abnormal. However believing that any of the Tyrants might be “GIVEN” the opportunity to mess with your life directly, sir with respect is paranoia. Sir with respect, being paranoid is an abnormal condition. You should seek help!

    BTW, Jimmy Carter did start the Housing the masses thing… he was truly a generous and great leader in a corrupt institution. It is the fault of those who were charged with developing and implementing the scheme for corrupting the whole thing.

    I am also inclined to believe that OBL had nothing to do with these things that he is accused of. OBL was up against a very clever foe with limitless resources and a fully compliant media. Yes, he was framed !!!

    And Sir, be advised that these politicians in the Caribbean and the US are themselves megalomaniacs, this is a very common condition, even among priests. One West Indian Prime Minister did in fact see UFO’s, and another swore that there was a gentleman off the coast of St. Vincent with a shipment of arms that was intent on overthrowing him.

    What is your point again?


  48. Sargeant

    I beating ’bout wid Moneybrain, he still new. You on the other hand should know better so I chalk it up to you being mischievous!!! I leffing you to hang yaself …


  49. wuhloss Cuba is a success story! by what standards Sir? So why is half of its population living in america! with all that success you would think they wouldn’t be risking their lives floating the high seas in old cars and inner tubes in shark infested waters. Sir you need to go live there with all that success! it is easy for one to live in freedom and talk about how good it is when others are suffering at the hands of benevolent dictators.


  50. ac

    I ignoring you too … leff mah nah

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